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[Music]

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you're in the para cast the gold

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standard of paranormal radio and now

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here's gene Steinberg they were truly

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truly fascinating episode today where we

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bring on a real anthropologist dr. Jack

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hunter and we have a book called

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engaging the anomalous collected essays

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in anthropology the paranormal

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mediumship an extraordinary experience

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and we're gonna learn I guess more of a

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scientific approach to a lot of strange

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things are going on in our world now

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I'll give you example here the blurb we

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got from the publisher Robby Graham of

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course he edited UFOs reframing of the

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debate

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it says trends in anthropology's

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engagement with the paranormal the

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anthropology and neuroscience of spirit

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possession that I want to talk more

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about that the history of spiritualism

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and the phenomena of physical mediumship

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the overlaps between mediumistic

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practices and other mind-body phenomena

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fascinating our guest co-host again is

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Coggs Makai how you doing dogs not too

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bad gene not too bad the Sun has been

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shining here which quite rare and it's

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felt like Phoenix today honestly but a

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nice change tonight's topic is right up

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my street because along with UFOs I love

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the idea of spirits good and bad

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communication with them all that kind of

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stuff I mean I don't know exactly what I

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believe about that you know use of Ouija

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boards or but I certainly do like the

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that are some very few academic

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bodies who take parapsychology you know

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seriously but they're very what might I

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say they're very far between few and far

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between that's plan to remind our

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listeners in dr. hunter will hear this

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last week we had a another fascinating

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discussion with Brent Raines where he

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talked about possibly making contact

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with the late John keel hmm spokes yeah

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so dr. hunter that we got you on here

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we're gonna put you in the thick of it

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yep you've worked with a ghost box at

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all I've never worked with the ghost box

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no do you know John keel was I never

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John keel was yep boss okay so let me

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ask you a question here then and then

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we'll get more into what's in the book

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have you encountered cases where

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something like this can be done where

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somebody that we know can be contacted

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from beyond the grave and it appears to

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be a genuine phenomenon well I've never

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spoken with anyone that I know through a

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medium but I have spoken to several

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different kinds of spirits through

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mediums so we can put them on a kind of

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on the same kind of playing field and I

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would say that it's possible yeah you

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certainly hear of meaty people going to

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seem mediums and they're very careful to

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make sure that maybe and they're

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anonymous there's no history or

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information given about the person and

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so far I know about cold reading and

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stuff but you just hear occasional cases

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where they seem to latch on to just

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incredibly obscure information private

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information and just for my own

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satisfaction one day I'd love to go and

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see you know I renowned at medium just

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to see if they do what the hit rates

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like for them yeah that's it darkness

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whatever her name is

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remember the Doris Stokes yes that's her

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yeah young girl no

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yeah she is I want to ask you here how

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does an anthropologist get into this or

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were you involved or interested in the

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paranormal before you began your

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academic studies yeah I've been always

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been interested in the paranormal really

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going right back to when I was really

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young I used to be fascinated by like

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vampires and all of those kinds of

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things I used to read books when I was

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young about UFOs and

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let all those kind of : Wilson books

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about great unsolved mysteries and

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things like that so I was always

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interested and then I kind of I started

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to see parallels between religion and

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the paranormal so that both of religion

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and the paranormal seem to be dealing

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with you know invisible spirits and

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miraculous events so I gradually became

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more and more interested in religious

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studies at school and then when I got to

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university or when it came to deciding

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what I was going to study at university

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anthropology seemed like the obvious

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choice because it gave the opportunity

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to to explore a religious phenomena and

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paranormal phenomena from an academic

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perspective jack Hasker old you are

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yeah I'm 32 okay it's okay I was going

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to ask if you had heard of a certain

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magazine I brought up last week but

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you're probably too young I'm 44 so and

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I was young when it came out anyway but

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just because you're new care was going

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to ask it's part of the reason why I

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became interested many paranormal topics

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it was one of those magazines that would

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come out every a collection come out

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weekly and you'd build up a collection

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of them you know over six months or so

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and it was called the unexplained have

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you ever heard of it did you have the

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one with the three record of the suppose

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it kind of EVP one of the flexi discs

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Wow no it didn't now you mentioned early

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on dr. hunter that you were reading

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about UFOs of course this book seems

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societally different than anything

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related to UFOs or am I missing

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something

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well I mean the book doesn't deal with

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UFOs specifically but it does deal with

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entity encounters as well as how I would

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term it so it's about how we interact

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with spirits and different kinds of

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entities and actually I think there's a

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lot of overlap between the kind of UFO

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experience and the mediumship experience

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and there's different kinds of ways that

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we engage with these

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other kinds of intelligences so even

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though it doesn't it doesn't touch on

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UFO specifically I think it would be of

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use to people who are interested in UFOs

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to get that extra perspective on it

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really abductions out-of-body

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experiences sleep paralysis near-death

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experiences this huge overlap in all

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these kind of things another that's why

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I used to gonna see ufology and studies

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of ghosts or whatever I was gonna

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separate things I think they're all

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connected somehow it's some kind of

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source for sure

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and it coming about to John keel of

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course that was his kind of angle on

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things as well wasn't it well we also

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hear quite a bit about a unified field

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theory and this is something of the one

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of our other guest co-host Michael Allen

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has talked about and written about in

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our forums about this relationship and

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then another person that you might have

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heard of the guy named Miguel who goes

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by the name of red pill junky and he

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wrote a really excellent article for our

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newsletter talking about the

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relationship between near-death

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experiences and abductions so of course

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the perception dr. hunt area the surface

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perception and we all know its surface

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perceptions don't always come to be the

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surface perception is that abductions or

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encounters with alien beings beings from

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other planets star systems etc but when

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we start getting into a connection with

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near-death experiences where is that

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taking us that's a good question the way

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I seem to move in towards thinking about

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these things is that like I was saying

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before it's all about how we communicate

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with different kinds of intelligences so

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in near-death experiences we it appears

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as though people are communicating with

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their deceased loved ones of course we

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can't really be we accomplished hundreds

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I'm sure that they are they're actually

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they're dead loved ones but it's you

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know that's what they report and then in

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UFO abductions alien abductions they're

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communicating with these supposedly

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extraterrestrial intelligences and again

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we can't be a hundred percent certain

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that they are actually extraterrestrial

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intelligences and then people like

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you know John keel and others suggested

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that maybe the UFO noughts were like

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what have they called my alter

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terrestrials they're their intelligences

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or mines or different different modes of

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being that have always existed on the

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earth so I think we're dealing with a

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similar kind of thing and it's very

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difficult when you start to really think

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about it it's very difficult to to draw

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any line between them you'll get used to

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it soon dr. hunter but every 8 to 10 to

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12 minutes we have to do a break take a

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piece of business and then we'll be back

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and we have a lot of fascinating things

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to talk about dr. Jack hunter is here

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our guest co-host is GOG Makai you're in

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the data psychological cast we also have

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swag you know we have all these

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exclusive para cast things that you can

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buy we've got like I guess 60 or so

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different items and entails t-shirts

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sleeves for notebook computers iPad

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cases mouse pads the para cast jumbo

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tote bag all sorts of t-shirts and

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jackets and stuff like that for men and

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women we have a para cast aluminum water

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bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

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^ cast comm store dot the para cast com

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what makes special is that the items are

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the best quality of great t-shirts

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on them that's what makes them special

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in multiple sizes and colors we even

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have stuff for children stuff for

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women's stuff for men we have all sorts

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of sizes like small up 2x large a lot of

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good stuff that's the swag from the para

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stop by and take a shopping tour were

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you born before the year 1956

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to the FHA or what about this did you

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know 54 us congressmen have used a

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special tax-free

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count to earn up to 35 times more on

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their money it's true and you can do it

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too

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these are just two of the secrets

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revealed inside a stunning new book from

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the palm beach research group and Ted

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Vemma the man behind the 401k you'll

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discover the 18 best cash cows that can

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help you earn up to an extra sixty eight

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today you can get your very own free

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Ted benna's book when you text Benna two

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seven nine zero zero zero next the enn a

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two seven nine zero zero zero next Benna

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two seven nine zero zero zero now fellow

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Patriots my name is Todd savage founder

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of black rifle real estate calm like you

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I was a prisoner of the alt left

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sanctuary state until one day I chose to

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leave my family to freedom today we live

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on a sustainable twenty acre homestead

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where we shoot hunt garden and

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280
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286
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289
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290
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293
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294
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295
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297
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298
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[Music]

310
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321
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seven eight seven eight 4203

322
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that's eight seven seven eight seven

323
00:14:04,850 --> 00:14:02,850
eight 4203 we'd like to hear from you if

324
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:04,860
you have a comment or question about the

325
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:08,130
para cast sent it to news at the para

326
00:14:14,030 --> 00:14:11,519
cast com that's news at the para cast

327
00:14:16,759 --> 00:14:14,040
calm and don't forget to visit our

328
00:14:21,470 --> 00:14:16,769
famous para cast community forums at

329
00:14:24,259 --> 00:14:21,480
forum dot the para cast calm the

330
00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:24,269
parapsychological cast we'll have a

331
00:14:28,550 --> 00:14:25,889
second show like that I don't know I

332
00:14:31,160 --> 00:14:28,560
think we've done so much with UFOs dr.

333
00:14:33,350 --> 00:14:31,170
Jack hunter is with us and he's got this

334
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:33,360
fascinating book engaging the anomalous

335
00:14:39,620 --> 00:14:35,970
which is a bunch of essays it's not a

336
00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:39,630
big book it's like 235 20 50 pages but

337
00:14:45,769 --> 00:14:42,930
it ever it is it's a quick read it's not

338
00:14:47,449 --> 00:14:45,779
super small type it's a quick read yeah

339
00:14:49,069 --> 00:14:47,459
I think you'll enjoy a lot of different

340
00:14:52,939 --> 00:14:49,079
viewpoints to explore we're going into

341
00:14:54,019 --> 00:14:52,949
here the experience involving apparent

342
00:14:56,269 --> 00:14:54,029
space aliens

343
00:14:59,210 --> 00:14:56,279
Emma near-death experiences and stuff

344
00:15:01,370 --> 00:14:59,220
like that so when someone thinks dr.

345
00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:01,380
hunter that they are in touch with the

346
00:15:06,740 --> 00:15:03,800
Zeta Reticulans or whatever they are

347
00:15:08,569 --> 00:15:06,750
yeah is that something they believe

348
00:15:11,090 --> 00:15:08,579
we're perceive or something these

349
00:15:13,449 --> 00:15:11,100
entities are telling them what's going

350
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:13,459
on mmm that's a good question as well

351
00:15:18,590 --> 00:15:16,110
when we look at the paranormal from an

352
00:15:20,569 --> 00:15:18,600
anthropological perspective we start to

353
00:15:22,429 --> 00:15:20,579
notice a few different things the first

354
00:15:26,389 --> 00:15:22,439
thing that we start to notice is that

355
00:15:28,850 --> 00:15:26,399
there are common features of paranormal

356
00:15:30,470 --> 00:15:28,860
experiences all over the world so it

357
00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:30,480
doesn't matter where you know where you

358
00:15:34,670 --> 00:15:32,370
interview people you talk to someone in

359
00:15:36,350 --> 00:15:34,680
chyna you talk to someone in in America

360
00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:36,360
and you talk to someone in the middle of

361
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:39,000
Wales they all talk about similar kinds

362
00:15:45,019 --> 00:15:41,730
of things so they might talk about like

363
00:15:46,340 --> 00:15:45,029
luminous entities or you know in

364
00:15:47,930 --> 00:15:46,350
near-death experiences you hear about

365
00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:47,940
the tunnel and all those kinds of things

366
00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:50,730
there seem to be common core features

367
00:15:54,140 --> 00:15:52,890
and then the other thing that you notice

368
00:15:56,269 --> 00:15:54,150
when you start to look at it from an

369
00:15:58,850 --> 00:15:56,279
anthropological perspective is that

370
00:16:01,579 --> 00:15:58,860
culture and belief also seemed to have

371
00:16:03,860 --> 00:16:01,589
some kind of an influence so we seem to

372
00:16:06,740 --> 00:16:03,870
be dealing with something that kind of

373
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:06,750
changes the way it presents itself to us

374
00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:08,370
according to our own beliefs and

375
00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:10,920
expectations so when you ask a question

376
00:16:15,860 --> 00:16:13,410
like that there is no simple answer

377
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:15,870
there's no simple way of determining

378
00:16:21,019 --> 00:16:17,850
whether it is something that is 100%

379
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:21,029
independent and objective or whether it

380
00:16:24,890 --> 00:16:23,250
is something that is influenced and

381
00:16:27,079 --> 00:16:24,900
molded by our own beliefs and

382
00:16:29,090 --> 00:16:27,089
expectations so actually I think the

383
00:16:30,350 --> 00:16:29,100
truth of the matter is that we're

384
00:16:33,230 --> 00:16:30,360
dealing with something that's in between

385
00:16:34,420 --> 00:16:33,240
out there and in here if that makes any

386
00:16:38,630 --> 00:16:34,430
sense

387
00:16:41,510 --> 00:16:38,640
I believe imagine you're aware of dr.

388
00:16:45,620 --> 00:16:41,520
Rick Strassman and his studies involving

389
00:16:48,500 --> 00:16:45,630
dimethyltryptamine DMT have you looked

390
00:16:51,340 --> 00:16:48,510
much into this whole relationship

391
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:51,350
between DMT this naturally occurring

392
00:16:56,690 --> 00:16:54,450
substance which is in our bodies and in

393
00:16:59,960 --> 00:16:56,700
plants and very small quantities but

394
00:17:02,480 --> 00:16:59,970
I've heard that sometimes in extreme

395
00:17:04,850 --> 00:17:02,490
events such as a near-death experience

396
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:04,860
or out-of-body experience maybe

397
00:17:11,329 --> 00:17:07,530
sometimes the pineal gland or whatever

398
00:17:13,790 --> 00:17:11,339
can produce more of it in a way some of

399
00:17:16,100 --> 00:17:13,800
these experiences may be a mini kind of

400
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:16,110
trip yeah what do you think about that I

401
00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:18,360
think it's a really interesting idea

402
00:17:23,630 --> 00:17:20,910
my colleague dr. David Lucas is really

403
00:17:24,980 --> 00:17:23,640
the guy to talk to about DMT research so

404
00:17:26,419 --> 00:17:24,990
I advise you try and get him on the show

405
00:17:29,030 --> 00:17:26,429
at some point to talk about it because

406
00:17:30,380 --> 00:17:29,040
he does this kind of main area but if

407
00:17:33,260 --> 00:17:30,390
the only thing is interesting to

408
00:17:35,630 --> 00:17:33,270
consider that there might be underlying

409
00:17:38,480 --> 00:17:35,640
kind of neuro chemical and euro

410
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:38,490
physiological changes that enable us to

411
00:17:43,130 --> 00:17:40,530
make contact with these other kinds of

412
00:17:45,770 --> 00:17:43,140
minds suppose there's two ways to look

413
00:17:48,500 --> 00:17:45,780
at some people in the scientific person

414
00:17:51,020 --> 00:17:48,510
me to see well it's just an experience

415
00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:51,030
of the drug that of being under the

416
00:17:56,120 --> 00:17:52,650
influence whereas some others may think

417
00:17:58,250 --> 00:17:56,130
that the chemical unlocks the experience

418
00:18:00,410 --> 00:17:58,260
so there is something with you know the

419
00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,420
chemical and the physical is there

420
00:18:06,980 --> 00:18:02,820
anywhere whose the name of that research

421
00:18:07,820 --> 00:18:06,990
is it there Professor Susan Greenwood or

422
00:18:10,490 --> 00:18:07,830
something

423
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:10,500
yes she am i right in thinking she looks

424
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:12,090
at these these kind of things in the

425
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:14,880
noodle neuroscience yeah well her main

426
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:16,500
interest was in the near-death

427
00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:18,810
experience and explaining a near-death

428
00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:22,890
experience in terms of hypoxia so with

429
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:24,540
the idea that we have near-death

430
00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:26,310
experiences when our brain is kind of

431
00:18:30,740 --> 00:18:28,650
starved of oxygen but we've got the

432
00:18:34,550 --> 00:18:30,750
classic problem of distinguishing

433
00:18:37,250 --> 00:18:34,560
between causation and correlation yeah

434
00:18:39,580 --> 00:18:37,260
so just because a lack of oxygen is

435
00:18:41,570 --> 00:18:39,590
correlated with the experience of

436
00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:41,580
meeting your dead loved ones or

437
00:18:45,380 --> 00:18:43,470
traveling down a tunnel of light doesn't

438
00:18:47,030 --> 00:18:45,390
necessarily mean that that's what's

439
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:47,040
caused it and like you're saying before

440
00:18:51,980 --> 00:18:50,490
and actually this is kind of the way

441
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:51,990
that I think about it as well is that

442
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:53,940
these specific neuro physiological

443
00:19:00,020 --> 00:18:57,600
states are a part of the overall process

444
00:19:02,360 --> 00:19:00,030
of making contact with these other other

445
00:19:04,790 --> 00:19:02,370
worlds so yeah I think that they are

446
00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:04,800
they're like the necessary preconditions

447
00:19:09,140 --> 00:19:06,210
for having these kinds of experiences

448
00:19:11,390 --> 00:19:09,150
not to say that it's created by those

449
00:19:15,140 --> 00:19:11,400
preconditions but the preconditions and

450
00:19:19,790 --> 00:19:15,150
have enabled the experience I believe I

451
00:19:25,490 --> 00:19:19,800
read once that a mummy obviously from

452
00:19:28,550 --> 00:19:25,500
Egypt was tested by one of the world's

453
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:28,560
foremost forensic toxicologist I think

454
00:19:36,250 --> 00:19:30,690
it was a professor from Germany a woman

455
00:19:39,890 --> 00:19:36,260
and she found traces of cocaine and

456
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:39,900
nicotine there and these substances

457
00:19:46,850 --> 00:19:44,370
tobacco and the coca plant only come

458
00:19:50,690 --> 00:19:46,860
from only originated from the Americas

459
00:19:52,910 --> 00:19:50,700
South America and they're supposedly was

460
00:19:55,400 --> 00:19:52,920
there weren't wasn't any a transatlantic

461
00:19:58,010 --> 00:19:55,410
trade going on back then this is like

462
00:19:59,100 --> 00:19:58,020
five thousand years old but this seems

463
00:20:02,250 --> 00:19:59,110
to be kind of proof

464
00:20:05,220 --> 00:20:02,260
positive that it was and I find it

465
00:20:09,210 --> 00:20:05,230
interesting that all around the world at

466
00:20:12,660 --> 00:20:09,220
various time different cultures have you

467
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:12,670
know taken not necessarily drugs but

468
00:20:17,610 --> 00:20:14,950
they've maybe gone through ritual

469
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:17,620
drumming chanting sweat lodges or

470
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:19,600
something but people seem to always have

471
00:20:25,230 --> 00:20:22,330
had the need to try and commune with the

472
00:20:27,750 --> 00:20:25,240
higher and get into altered states heard

473
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:27,760
yeah I mean altered states of

474
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:29,170
consciousness like we were saying before

475
00:20:33,419 --> 00:20:31,450
when we when we look at the cross

476
00:20:34,799 --> 00:20:33,429
culturally at the paranormal altered

477
00:20:37,049 --> 00:20:34,809
states of consciousness is something

478
00:20:38,190 --> 00:20:37,059
that comes up time and time again it

479
00:20:41,220 --> 00:20:38,200
doesn't matter whether we're talking

480
00:20:42,990 --> 00:20:41,230
about altered states their draw brawn

481
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:43,000
brought about through drug consumption

482
00:20:46,740 --> 00:20:44,890
or alter states they're brought about

483
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:46,750
through hyperstimulation or sensory

484
00:20:50,880 --> 00:20:48,970
deprivation or ever what seems to be

485
00:20:53,340 --> 00:20:50,890
required as some kind of a shift in

486
00:20:55,169 --> 00:20:53,350
consciousness I mean you know you do

487
00:20:57,960 --> 00:20:55,179
hear stories of people experiencing

488
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:57,970
paranormal phenomena in perfectly their

489
00:21:02,850 --> 00:21:00,640
normal waking consciousness but much

490
00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:02,860
more frequently there is some kind of an

491
00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:04,990
altered state involved even if it's not

492
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,510
deliberately induced so sometimes an

493
00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:09,280
altered state you hear about the AHS

494
00:21:12,990 --> 00:21:11,650
effect and things like yes that's a lot

495
00:21:16,350 --> 00:21:13,000
like an altered state of consciousness

496
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:16,360
that seems to be induced externally or

497
00:21:19,980 --> 00:21:18,370
something is them there's something out

498
00:21:22,799 --> 00:21:19,990
there that causes that state of

499
00:21:25,770 --> 00:21:22,809
consciousness this silence of the AHS

500
00:21:28,860 --> 00:21:25,780
effect you know no birds or no insects

501
00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:28,870
making noises like that fast as me what

502
00:21:33,090 --> 00:21:31,690
do you think might may be the reason why

503
00:21:35,850 --> 00:21:33,100
the study

504
00:21:39,150 --> 00:21:35,860
the academic study of parapsychology has

505
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:39,160
gone right out of favor if it ever was

506
00:21:44,909 --> 00:21:41,650
fully in favor but it seems to be pretty

507
00:21:48,090 --> 00:21:44,919
frowned upon but how do you feel if

508
00:21:50,580 --> 00:21:48,100
you're of some conference that has the

509
00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:50,590
conference attendees are not necessarily

510
00:21:56,460 --> 00:21:53,350
in the same field as you how do you feel

511
00:21:59,220 --> 00:21:56,470
about introducing yourself to others and

512
00:22:00,419 --> 00:21:59,230
saying oh I've studied this do you ever

513
00:22:04,140 --> 00:22:00,429
sort of think well they're kind of

514
00:22:05,850 --> 00:22:04,150
looking down their nose at you yeah you

515
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:05,860
have to kind of get used to that I think

516
00:22:09,870 --> 00:22:07,690
and then just kind of plow along with it

517
00:22:12,539 --> 00:22:09,880
because if if you went to a conference

518
00:22:14,099 --> 00:22:12,549
and every time you were there you felt

519
00:22:16,169 --> 00:22:14,109
of the research that you've done then

520
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:16,179
you're never gonna never gonna make any

521
00:22:22,289 --> 00:22:19,330
progress so you have to make yourself

522
00:22:23,999 --> 00:22:22,299
almost immune to that kind of conduct or

523
00:22:27,089 --> 00:22:24,009
you can just do what I do which is yeah

524
00:22:30,539 --> 00:22:27,099
I'm crazy so live with it dr. Jack

525
00:22:33,749 --> 00:22:30,549
hunter cogs Makai I'm gene Steinberg

526
00:22:36,089 --> 00:22:33,759
more to come on should be called the

527
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:36,099
greatest paranormal show on earth you're

528
00:22:52,630 --> 00:22:47,800
[Music]

529
00:23:00,169 --> 00:22:58,430
visit GP and live.com today we all have

530
00:23:01,970 --> 00:23:00,179
heard about the benefits of fish oils

531
00:23:05,539 --> 00:23:01,980
but what about the presence of heavy

532
00:23:07,850 --> 00:23:05,549
metals PCBs dioxins fir'aun's and other

533
00:23:11,029 --> 00:23:07,860
contaminants found in fatty tissues of

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fish GCN team.com recognizes this risk

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and offers IFOS certified tested omega-3

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the best at GCN team.com or call eight

539
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seven seven eight seven eight forty 203

540
00:23:31,370 --> 00:23:29,700
this is Fred hi I'm Fred Fred's a

541
00:23:33,139 --> 00:23:31,380
repeater I tend to repeat right has a

542
00:23:35,029 --> 00:23:33,149
business I do have a business and a

543
00:23:37,130 --> 00:23:35,039
problem bred repeats the same tired

544
00:23:39,139 --> 00:23:37,140
advertising over and over and now it

545
00:23:41,289 --> 00:23:39,149
doesn't work over and over but Fred is

546
00:23:42,889 --> 00:23:41,299
about to see a vision a vision

547
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started today with GCN the genesis

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communications network just email

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advertised at GCN live.com for us a

555
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radio news I'm Wendy King residents

556
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along the northern Gulf Coast from New

557
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Orleans to the Florida Panhandle are

558
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under a tropical storm watch Alberto a

559
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subtropical storm is turning north from

560
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just east of Cozumel Mexico

561
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Danielle Ellis is a reporter for W ECP

562
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TV in Panama City daily conference calls

563
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between emergency operations the

564
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National Weather Service and the

565
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Hurricane Center will keep everyone

566
00:24:35,539 --> 00:24:33,690
alert if the storm develops governor

567
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Scott hold a press conference letting

568
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the public know imports information

569
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we've already moved some high water

570
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vehicles up

571
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from Fish and Wildlife we're staying up

572
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with all the agencies to make sure

573
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everybody is prepared to make sure that

574
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if we have the severe weather that

575
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everybody's going to be taken care of

576
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the storm is expected to make landfall

577
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sometime on Memorial Day you're

578
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listening to us a radio news hi Wyatt

579
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Cox classic radio theater I used to

580
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watch people checking the motels with

581
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pillows I hate to say why they've got

582
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pillows there aren't they good enough

583
00:25:12,590 --> 00:25:09,930
now I know they weren't good enough cuz

584
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:12,600
I have my pillow and I take mine with me

585
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everywhere I go any time I'm spending a

586
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night why it stays cool all night you

587
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592
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593
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594
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pillow in the washer dryer it's like new

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again try doing that with your dollar

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605
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society is only three missed meals away

606
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from chaos those times may be near think

607
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about it our country faces multiple

608
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terrorist threats and aggressions from

609
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Russia and North Korea social unrest and

610
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violent marches yet again may lead to

611
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looting of stores and city shutdowns and

612
00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:17,130
a crumbling infrastructure leaves our

613
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power grid vulnerable to long term

614
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outages from a single cyberattack when

615
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the chaos from any one of these threats

616
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617
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618
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621
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623
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629
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630
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631
00:27:09,070 --> 00:27:07,279
GCN dot-com hi this is Bryce Abel I'm

632
00:27:11,049 --> 00:27:09,080
the producer of dark skies the co-author

633
00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:11,059
of AD after disclosure and you are

634
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:13,130
listening to the para cast the gold

635
00:27:22,630 --> 00:27:15,610
standard of paranormal radio

636
00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:22,640
[Music]

637
00:27:27,770 --> 00:27:25,230
well have checked to that maybe if he

638
00:27:31,670 --> 00:27:27,780
wants to lower himself we've got dr.

639
00:27:33,140 --> 00:27:31,680
Jack hunter and we're covering all sorts

640
00:27:35,050 --> 00:27:33,150
of connections with the paranormal and

641
00:27:38,150 --> 00:27:35,060
the obvious first question hits me

642
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:38,160
talking about this theoretically real

643
00:27:43,580 --> 00:27:40,290
phenomena being in altered states of

644
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:43,590
consciousness which I did in some degree

645
00:27:48,500 --> 00:27:45,530
when I was much much much much younger

646
00:27:51,470 --> 00:27:48,510
dr. hunter have you ever had what we'd

647
00:27:54,580 --> 00:27:51,480
call a paranormal experience yeah I've

648
00:27:56,690 --> 00:27:54,590
had I suppose I've had quite a few

649
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:56,700
paranormal experiences of different

650
00:28:02,540 --> 00:28:00,080
kinds of varieties nothing particularly

651
00:28:05,030 --> 00:28:02,550
extravagant I've met well actually I

652
00:28:06,770 --> 00:28:05,040
think I have seen the UFO but I've never

653
00:28:09,110 --> 00:28:06,780
had like a full-on

654
00:28:10,490 --> 00:28:09,120
abduction experience or anything one of

655
00:28:12,740 --> 00:28:10,500
the most interesting ones while we're

656
00:28:15,410 --> 00:28:12,750
talking about altered states of

657
00:28:16,460 --> 00:28:15,420
consciousness was the very first time

658
00:28:19,270 --> 00:28:16,470
that I ever took

659
00:28:21,890 --> 00:28:19,280
magic mushrooms psilocybin mushrooms I

660
00:28:25,670 --> 00:28:21,900
had an experience of what I took at the

661
00:28:27,950 --> 00:28:25,680
time to be faeries which was a really

662
00:28:29,660 --> 00:28:27,960
important experience for me in my kind

663
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:29,670
of development and my interest in all of

664
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:31,770
these kinds of things I should probably

665
00:28:35,510 --> 00:28:33,330
mention that these fairies were kind of

666
00:28:38,390 --> 00:28:35,520
like two-dimensional which was an

667
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:38,400
interesting feature like seeing a comic

668
00:28:44,390 --> 00:28:42,690
book well they were in the grain of a

669
00:28:46,310 --> 00:28:44,400
chest of drawers that had a drawer

670
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:46,320
hanging out of it and they were kind of

671
00:28:51,020 --> 00:28:48,000
in a procession along the grain of the

672
00:28:52,820 --> 00:28:51,030
wood and they kind of turned yeah

673
00:28:54,830 --> 00:28:52,830
however you can turn in two dimensions

674
00:28:56,900 --> 00:28:54,840
they turned and looked at me and they

675
00:28:59,090 --> 00:28:56,910
kind of clocked me and then they carried

676
00:29:01,100 --> 00:28:59,100
on with that procession surely these are

677
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:01,110
the ones that Sir Arthur Conan Doyle

678
00:29:08,540 --> 00:29:04,170
must have seen probably yeah

679
00:29:10,730 --> 00:29:08,550
you know that experience obviously drove

680
00:29:13,070 --> 00:29:10,740
home the relationship between altered

681
00:29:15,830 --> 00:29:13,080
states of consciousness and paranormal

682
00:29:17,870 --> 00:29:15,840
experiences another connection between

683
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:17,880
Auto States and paranormal experiences

684
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:21,090
I've had is during hypnagogic and

685
00:29:26,690 --> 00:29:23,490
hypnopompic state so when you're kind of

686
00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:26,700
waking up and falling asleep and at the

687
00:29:31,469 --> 00:29:29,460
one time when I was kind of most heavily

688
00:29:34,469 --> 00:29:31,479
involved with my fieldwork

689
00:29:38,519 --> 00:29:34,479
with mediums at the Bristol Spirit Lodge

690
00:29:41,489 --> 00:29:38,529
I had these weird hypnagogic experiences

691
00:29:45,599 --> 00:29:41,499
where I would wake up and see these kind

692
00:29:47,729 --> 00:29:45,609
of like green three-dimensional figures

693
00:29:50,069 --> 00:29:47,739
standing above my bed one of them was

694
00:29:53,539 --> 00:29:50,079
like a floating green goats head which

695
00:29:55,919 --> 00:29:53,549
was particularly interesting and perhaps

696
00:30:00,139 --> 00:29:55,929
it wasn't frightening it was more

697
00:30:02,579 --> 00:30:00,149
intriguing yeah and then my most

698
00:30:04,979 --> 00:30:02,589
extravagant experience was actually

699
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:04,989
during one of the seances at the Bristol

700
00:30:09,449 --> 00:30:07,690
Spirit Lodge on the day when the medium

701
00:30:11,459 --> 00:30:09,459
wasn't able to attend for whatever

702
00:30:15,180 --> 00:30:11,469
reason so they decided that they were

703
00:30:16,829 --> 00:30:15,190
gonna do an open development sitting and

704
00:30:19,469 --> 00:30:16,839
kind of invite spirits to let themselves

705
00:30:21,930 --> 00:30:19,479
be known through anyone else who was in

706
00:30:25,349 --> 00:30:21,940
the room so we all kind of went into a

707
00:30:26,879 --> 00:30:25,359
quiet relaxation but they put some music

708
00:30:29,129 --> 00:30:26,889
on and they turned the red light up in

709
00:30:31,229 --> 00:30:29,139
the seance room and we just kind of

710
00:30:33,060 --> 00:30:31,239
relaxed into it and I thought this was a

711
00:30:35,729 --> 00:30:33,070
nice opportunity to meditate and you

712
00:30:38,639 --> 00:30:35,739
know enjoying myself a little bit so I

713
00:30:40,709 --> 00:30:38,649
closed my eyes I put my arms down on the

714
00:30:43,199 --> 00:30:40,719
side of the chair and I just kind of

715
00:30:45,810 --> 00:30:43,209
relaxed and then after a while I started

716
00:30:48,869 --> 00:30:45,820
to feel I'm tingling in my hands and

717
00:30:51,989 --> 00:30:48,879
more so in my left hand I'm right-handed

718
00:30:54,629 --> 00:30:51,999
so the fact that it was happening in my

719
00:30:57,659 --> 00:30:54,639
left hand was it was yeah a bit odd to

720
00:30:59,789 --> 00:30:57,669
me I started to feel this tingling and

721
00:31:02,699 --> 00:30:59,799
then suddenly my hand started to move of

722
00:31:03,930 --> 00:31:02,709
its own accord or it seemed it felt as

723
00:31:06,539 --> 00:31:03,940
though it was moving of its own accord

724
00:31:09,359 --> 00:31:06,549
anyway and I felt myself kind of

725
00:31:12,299 --> 00:31:09,369
slipping backwards out over the back of

726
00:31:15,299 --> 00:31:12,309
my body kind of like a mini out-of-body

727
00:31:16,919 --> 00:31:15,309
experience really and interestingly the

728
00:31:20,249 --> 00:31:16,929
only other time that I've had that kind

729
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:20,259
of sensation of slipping out of my body

730
00:31:25,889 --> 00:31:24,399
was taking a hit of salvia divinorum oh

731
00:31:29,190 --> 00:31:25,899
yes is that

732
00:31:32,849 --> 00:31:29,200
yeah very strange and psychoactive plant

733
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:32,859
and yeah so there's again this link

734
00:31:35,969 --> 00:31:34,690
between different kinds of altered

735
00:31:37,379 --> 00:31:35,979
states of consciousness and then

736
00:31:39,419 --> 00:31:37,389
different kinds of paranormal

737
00:31:41,729 --> 00:31:39,429
experiences there we going back to the

738
00:31:43,709 --> 00:31:41,739
mediumship at the height of my mini

739
00:31:44,799 --> 00:31:43,719
out-of-body experience my hand was kind

740
00:31:47,019 --> 00:31:44,809
of going where left

741
00:31:48,850 --> 00:31:47,029
and was going wild and moving around in

742
00:31:51,850 --> 00:31:48,860
the room and it really freaked me out

743
00:31:54,430 --> 00:31:51,860
and probably imagine so I snapped myself

744
00:31:57,129 --> 00:31:54,440
out of it and I looked around the room

745
00:32:00,430 --> 00:31:57,139
and basically the circle leader was you

746
00:32:02,019 --> 00:32:00,440
know laughing at me cuz there yeah she

747
00:32:04,029 --> 00:32:02,029
she knew what was going on she had an

748
00:32:05,259 --> 00:32:04,039
inkling that these kinds of experiences

749
00:32:08,499 --> 00:32:05,269
happen when you start to begin

750
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:08,509
developing mediumship and I was shocked

751
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:12,110
but I decided that I had to kind of go

752
00:32:16,060 --> 00:32:13,730
with it and try again so we went back

753
00:32:18,039 --> 00:32:16,070
into my meditation and then the whole

754
00:32:20,289 --> 00:32:18,049
thing happened again much quicker this

755
00:32:22,330 --> 00:32:20,299
time but it didn't progress to anything

756
00:32:24,879 --> 00:32:22,340
more than just my left hand moving

757
00:32:26,619 --> 00:32:24,889
around seemingly of its own accord and

758
00:32:29,739 --> 00:32:26,629
then I kind of returned back to my

759
00:32:33,039 --> 00:32:29,749
normal consciousness it did have another

760
00:32:36,190 --> 00:32:33,049
time but yeah what I was gonna bring up

761
00:32:39,700 --> 00:32:36,200
when you stuck when you're talking about

762
00:32:44,430 --> 00:32:39,710
having to get used to perhaps maybe the

763
00:32:46,779 --> 00:32:44,440
the views of other academics and when

764
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:46,789
revealing what it is you're interested

765
00:32:55,980 --> 00:32:50,570
in and I was thinking that even the kind

766
00:32:58,629 --> 00:32:55,990
of most strictest most ardent skeptical

767
00:33:00,700 --> 00:32:58,639
scientists of no interest of this kind

768
00:33:03,639 --> 00:33:00,710
of thing it kind of makes me laugh

769
00:33:05,889 --> 00:33:03,649
really that you know I got an T that

770
00:33:07,629 --> 00:33:05,899
they've been to funerals or weddings and

771
00:33:10,090 --> 00:33:07,639
stuff like ah and though they'll happily

772
00:33:11,980 --> 00:33:10,100
sit and listen to readings from the

773
00:33:14,830 --> 00:33:11,990
Bible and stuff which I always say is

774
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:14,840
the most part of normal book there is is

775
00:33:21,460 --> 00:33:18,710
the Bible and you know they they many am

776
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:21,470
scientists eminent scientists of new

777
00:33:25,899 --> 00:33:23,330
problem admitting that they have

778
00:33:28,330 --> 00:33:25,909
religious beliefs themselves so I find

779
00:33:30,879 --> 00:33:28,340
it a bit kind of funny a bit two-faced

780
00:33:33,489 --> 00:33:30,889
for them to look down their nose at the

781
00:33:36,580 --> 00:33:33,499
study of the weird and the wonderful

782
00:33:38,830 --> 00:33:36,590
whilst at the same time admitting that

783
00:33:40,149 --> 00:33:38,840
they maybe they're a Christian whatever

784
00:33:42,669 --> 00:33:40,159
I'm not saying there's anything wrong

785
00:33:46,749 --> 00:33:42,679
with being a Christian or religious or

786
00:33:49,180 --> 00:33:46,759
whatever but you know a religion is the

787
00:33:52,419 --> 00:33:49,190
paranormal a you know to a great degree

788
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:52,429
yeah I think so yeah definitely there is

789
00:34:00,060 --> 00:33:55,210
this a strange distinction Civ

790
00:34:01,710 --> 00:34:00,070
religion is the paranormal but it's it's

791
00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:01,720
kind of like I like to think of it as

792
00:34:08,070 --> 00:34:05,440
the paranormal domesticated so it's been

793
00:34:11,550 --> 00:34:08,080
it's been stripped of its wildness and

794
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:11,560
it's been kind of squeezed into a kind

795
00:34:17,670 --> 00:34:13,930
of rigid framework it sounds like it's

796
00:34:20,010 --> 00:34:17,680
homogenized and pasteurized by a group

797
00:34:21,870 --> 00:34:20,020
of people to make it warm and fuzzy for

798
00:34:25,980 --> 00:34:21,880
everybody yeah exactly

799
00:34:27,900 --> 00:34:25,990
here's another one when when people are

800
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:27,910
in court and stuff like ah when you're

801
00:34:33,720 --> 00:34:29,890
in court and giving evidence you know

802
00:34:36,390 --> 00:34:33,730
you can't just state hearsay my friend

803
00:34:39,630 --> 00:34:36,400
says dah dah dah this that's not

804
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:39,640
evidence and but at the same time when

805
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:41,770
you swear to give the truth of all truth

806
00:34:46,340 --> 00:34:43,570
and nothing but the truth you're sweet

807
00:34:49,380 --> 00:34:46,350
him on a book that is purely faith-based

808
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:49,390
yep yeah that's a bit weird as well but

809
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:52,090
Jack you were saying of the this few

810
00:34:56,340 --> 00:34:54,010
paranormal experiences you've had you

811
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:56,350
did say you may have had a UFO sighting

812
00:35:01,200 --> 00:34:58,210
can you tell us a bit more about that

813
00:35:05,610 --> 00:35:01,210
because we love me yeah of UFOs in the

814
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:05,620
podcast well it was funny because it was

815
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:07,510
this one night when me and my friend

816
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:10,810
were at home and we were just kind of

817
00:35:15,990 --> 00:35:13,510
know chilling out and relaxing and then

818
00:35:17,580 --> 00:35:16,000
there was a power cut and I thought to

819
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:17,590
myself this would be the perfect time to

820
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:20,650
go out to take the car out and drive up

821
00:35:24,690 --> 00:35:22,150
into the mountains because there'd be no

822
00:35:27,510 --> 00:35:24,700
street lights on anywhere yeah they'll

823
00:35:28,860 --> 00:35:27,520
be perfectly pitch black and you know

824
00:35:30,660 --> 00:35:28,870
we'll be able to see if there's anything

825
00:35:32,610 --> 00:35:30,670
you know anything weird going on because

826
00:35:34,500 --> 00:35:32,620
we know there's no electricity no light

827
00:35:36,630 --> 00:35:34,510
pollution yeah no light pollution a

828
00:35:38,550 --> 00:35:36,640
pitch darkness so we got in the car and

829
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:38,560
we drove up into the barren mountains

830
00:35:44,370 --> 00:35:40,810
which is a mountains nearby to where we

831
00:35:46,890 --> 00:35:44,380
are here and incidentally there was

832
00:35:50,670 --> 00:35:46,900
supposedly a UFO crash in the barren

833
00:35:53,250 --> 00:35:50,680
mountains in the 1970s case yeah it's

834
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:53,260
very famous case yeah yeah I grew up

835
00:35:59,460 --> 00:35:54,730
just at the bottom of the mountains

836
00:36:01,500 --> 00:35:59,470
there so area so we drove up to the

837
00:36:03,270 --> 00:36:01,510
mountains and then we parked in a lay-by

838
00:36:04,830 --> 00:36:03,280
and we got out of the car and just had a

839
00:36:08,650 --> 00:36:04,840
look around and we were looking down

840
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:08,660
into the valley below and we saw

841
00:36:14,140 --> 00:36:11,450
like a woodland it was all pitch dark

842
00:36:14,590 --> 00:36:14,150
there and a light started to come out of

843
00:36:16,540 --> 00:36:14,600
it

844
00:36:18,610 --> 00:36:16,550
so we could see that none of the house

845
00:36:19,930 --> 00:36:18,620
lights were on anywhere that we could

846
00:36:21,850 --> 00:36:19,940
see down to the village that the

847
00:36:23,650 --> 00:36:21,860
streetlights were still off but then

848
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:23,660
there was this bright light in the woods

849
00:36:28,120 --> 00:36:25,970
and it seemed to be moving towards us so

850
00:36:30,190 --> 00:36:28,130
we just kind of ran away look we didn't

851
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:30,200
want to get involved in it but that was

852
00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:32,330
my kind of what I think possibly was a

853
00:36:36,850 --> 00:36:34,310
UFO experience or someone with a torch

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we've got more to come with dr. Jack

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hunter and Jean and gongs

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hi it's Greg Cameron from presidential

960
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UFO calm you're listening to the para

961
00:41:22,059 --> 00:41:13,339
cast the gold standard of paranormal

962
00:41:24,250 --> 00:41:22,069
radio now just looking at the ratio here

963
00:41:26,710 --> 00:41:24,260
you're in your early 30s now dr. hunter

964
00:41:28,569 --> 00:41:26,720
I take it that you were in your 20s and

965
00:41:30,930 --> 00:41:28,579
30s when all this was going on it wasn't

966
00:41:34,569 --> 00:41:30,940
anything from your teen years or younger

967
00:41:36,730 --> 00:41:34,579
but really now yes my twenties yeah okay

968
00:41:39,730 --> 00:41:36,740
cuz you're at the same age group is my

969
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,740
son so all you young whippersnappers

970
00:41:44,500 --> 00:41:42,079
getting involved in this I wanted to ask

971
00:41:48,010 --> 00:41:44,510
you something here in general since you

972
00:41:49,390 --> 00:41:48,020
are young whippersnapper and dogs is the

973
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:49,400
less young whippersnapper

974
00:41:54,849 --> 00:41:52,250
and I'm aging old and all that stuff do

975
00:41:56,829 --> 00:41:54,859
you see more or less interest in the

976
00:41:58,299 --> 00:41:56,839
paranormal these days among younger

977
00:42:00,430 --> 00:41:58,309
people because will you go to

978
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:00,440
conventions especially UFO conventions

979
00:42:06,130 --> 00:42:03,170
they have old fossils like me mostly in

980
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:06,140
attendance that's interesting yeah my

981
00:42:13,180 --> 00:42:09,170
engagement with our normal research has

982
00:42:15,069 --> 00:42:13,190
been predominantly academic so in in

983
00:42:17,049 --> 00:42:15,079
universities and different kinds of

984
00:42:20,020 --> 00:42:17,059
places like that and I have noticed

985
00:42:21,730 --> 00:42:20,030
amongst younger scholars and more kind

986
00:42:22,690 --> 00:42:21,740
of an openness to investigating these

987
00:42:24,789 --> 00:42:22,700
kinds of things

988
00:42:27,069 --> 00:42:24,799
I don't know particularly why that why

989
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:27,079
that is maybe it's because the the kind

990
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:29,930
of old guard of Burma the skeptics kind

991
00:42:37,809 --> 00:42:34,130
of starting to die away Jean younger

992
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:37,819
people consumed their interest in the

993
00:42:41,799 --> 00:42:40,010
paranormal a different way it's all done

994
00:42:45,160 --> 00:42:41,809
through the internet and stuff like that

995
00:42:47,799 --> 00:42:45,170
so just because they maybe don't turn up

996
00:42:49,780 --> 00:42:47,809
to conferences and buy paper box or

997
00:42:51,970 --> 00:42:49,790
whatever but maybe they're out there but

998
00:42:53,740 --> 00:42:51,980
they're just watching YouTube and you

999
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:53,750
know going to websites so it's different

1000
00:42:59,710 --> 00:42:57,650
now so may look like there's no young

1001
00:43:02,710 --> 00:42:59,720
blood coming in but maybe there is but

1002
00:43:06,069 --> 00:43:02,720
it's just in different places and ways

1003
00:43:08,730 --> 00:43:06,079
different contact yeah yes I definitely

1004
00:43:10,690 --> 00:43:08,740
think on the internet there is a big

1005
00:43:11,710 --> 00:43:10,700
paranormal scene but I mean we're

1006
00:43:13,750 --> 00:43:11,720
talking about something that's really

1007
00:43:15,970 --> 00:43:13,760
big and really diverse

1008
00:43:18,070 --> 00:43:15,980
and includes everything from like the

1009
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:18,080
more kind of like new-age kind of stuff

1010
00:43:25,420 --> 00:43:22,490
right in the last 15 years how many new

1011
00:43:29,020 --> 00:43:25,430
like ghost hunting shows and UFO shows

1012
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:29,030
and there's you know as far as I can see

1013
00:43:34,090 --> 00:43:31,010
there's been an almost explosion like in

1014
00:43:37,210 --> 00:43:34,100
the 90s a when it was mostly terrestrial

1015
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:37,220
TV or if you had satellite and there'd

1016
00:43:42,310 --> 00:43:39,770
be the odd UFO CDs or something but not

1017
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:42,320
many but these days you can't move for

1018
00:43:48,190 --> 00:43:46,010
ghosts and UFOs shows on digital to TV

1019
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:48,200
and stuff I mean it's something that is

1020
00:43:52,770 --> 00:43:50,690
perennially fascinating to people I

1021
00:43:55,300 --> 00:43:52,780
think people are interested in it and

1022
00:43:57,810 --> 00:43:55,310
it's a really actually I used it they

1023
00:44:01,210 --> 00:43:57,820
use the paranormal a lot in my teaching

1024
00:44:03,310 --> 00:44:01,220
because I find that everyone has an

1025
00:44:05,109 --> 00:44:03,320
opinion on it doesn't matter whether you

1026
00:44:07,090 --> 00:44:05,119
believe in it or if you're an art

1027
00:44:09,099 --> 00:44:07,100
skeptic or whatever everyone has an

1028
00:44:12,130 --> 00:44:09,109
opinion so it's a really good icebreaker

1029
00:44:13,930 --> 00:44:12,140
in classrooms to start off a

1030
00:44:16,030 --> 00:44:13,940
conversation about the paranormal and

1031
00:44:18,700 --> 00:44:16,040
you'll get everyone chipping in with

1032
00:44:21,970 --> 00:44:18,710
their you know their two pens about yeah

1033
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:21,980
about its whether it's real or not maybe

1034
00:44:28,349 --> 00:44:24,770
a lot of people have a built-in interest

1035
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:28,359
in the subject but they are shall we say

1036
00:44:33,250 --> 00:44:30,650
reluctant to admit that interest

1037
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:33,260
although nowadays what I see more is

1038
00:44:37,300 --> 00:44:35,450
when I explain to people I'd do a show

1039
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:37,310
like this because I do a second show the

1040
00:44:41,410 --> 00:44:38,810
tech night a live which is strictly

1041
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:41,420
consumer electronics and such I don't

1042
00:44:46,930 --> 00:44:45,050
see people saying oh this guy is weird I

1043
00:44:49,990 --> 00:44:46,940
mean they can say that anyway but not in

1044
00:44:53,230 --> 00:44:50,000
connection with this yeah so maybe on

1045
00:44:55,870 --> 00:44:53,240
the are kind of reaching a different

1046
00:44:57,790 --> 00:44:55,880
audience we haven't sensed yeah we could

1047
00:45:00,580 --> 00:44:57,800
well be another another aspect that

1048
00:45:03,370 --> 00:45:00,590
plays into it is now people don't talk

1049
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:03,380
about it unless that the subject comes

1050
00:45:07,570 --> 00:45:05,930
up you know it's a big issue like if no

1051
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,580
one talks about it then no one's going

1052
00:45:11,890 --> 00:45:09,680
to talk about it if you have someone

1053
00:45:14,109 --> 00:45:11,900
like a teacher or some or a lecturer

1054
00:45:15,460 --> 00:45:14,119
ever who's willing to open up that

1055
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:15,470
conversation and get the ball rolling

1056
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:17,690
that's when people start to come out and

1057
00:45:21,690 --> 00:45:19,970
talk about their own experiences and

1058
00:45:26,230 --> 00:45:21,700
their own beliefs and feelings and ideas

1059
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:26,240
if all three of us were to just pick 10

1060
00:45:33,070 --> 00:45:29,570
rains or even distant family members at

1061
00:45:35,380 --> 00:45:33,080
random and to see we ever had a really

1062
00:45:38,290 --> 00:45:35,390
weird thing happen to you whatever and

1063
00:45:40,690 --> 00:45:38,300
the number of people will actually open

1064
00:45:42,790 --> 00:45:40,700
up and and have some kind of strange

1065
00:45:44,530 --> 00:45:42,800
experience that they never usually talk

1066
00:45:46,450 --> 00:45:44,540
about or anything cuz no one asked them

1067
00:45:48,940 --> 00:45:46,460
but it's amazing how many people out

1068
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:48,950
there that you know and you don't know

1069
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:51,410
that they've had a weird experience yeah

1070
00:45:57,580 --> 00:45:53,570
exactly that's that I mean I got a good

1071
00:46:00,010 --> 00:45:57,590
example with my my auntie who when I

1072
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:00,020
started to research mediumship and I was

1073
00:46:03,850 --> 00:46:01,690
talking about the paranormal a lot more

1074
00:46:06,010 --> 00:46:03,860
I'd never really talked about it with

1075
00:46:07,990 --> 00:46:06,020
her before but she was someone who had

1076
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:08,000
involved with computers for a long time

1077
00:46:13,420 --> 00:46:10,400
she's very rational and a logical person

1078
00:46:15,580 --> 00:46:13,430
and she told me these two amazing kind

1079
00:46:18,010 --> 00:46:15,590
of like ghost stories that or ghost

1080
00:46:22,290 --> 00:46:18,020
experiences that she had one where she

1081
00:46:24,670 --> 00:46:22,300
saw a place where she used to work a mug

1082
00:46:26,620 --> 00:46:24,680
levitating and turning upside down and

1083
00:46:29,410 --> 00:46:26,630
landing on the table and the second

1084
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:29,420
story she told me was about when her

1085
00:46:35,050 --> 00:46:32,330
husband died and she had a kind of like

1086
00:46:36,849 --> 00:46:35,060
a a vision or an apparition of him after

1087
00:46:39,849 --> 00:46:36,859
his funeral kind of coming to say

1088
00:46:42,010 --> 00:46:39,859
goodbye - yeah yeah yeah which is you

1089
00:46:44,020 --> 00:46:42,020
know a very very common experience

1090
00:46:46,620 --> 00:46:44,030
really yeah there's a term for that

1091
00:46:49,870 --> 00:46:46,630
there's a certain term for these last

1092
00:46:52,930 --> 00:46:49,880
visitation things I can't remember off

1093
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:52,940
by and just along the same beam like my

1094
00:46:59,260 --> 00:46:55,970
mother is from that the the largest of

1095
00:47:01,870 --> 00:46:59,270
the Western Isles in Scotland do to her

1096
00:47:05,230 --> 00:47:01,880
batiste a place called Lewis that side

1097
00:47:08,050 --> 00:47:05,240
of my family are very very religious

1098
00:47:10,870 --> 00:47:08,060
free shirts of Scotland you know no shop

1099
00:47:13,060 --> 00:47:10,880
TV or Sunday kind of thing you know

1100
00:47:15,310 --> 00:47:13,070
everyone says grace the table church

1101
00:47:17,380 --> 00:47:15,320
twice - Wheatley stuff great people but

1102
00:47:19,450 --> 00:47:17,390
we know very religious but I couldn't

1103
00:47:21,670 --> 00:47:19,460
believe that when I did start asking

1104
00:47:24,550 --> 00:47:21,680
these things I actually found out my own

1105
00:47:26,620 --> 00:47:24,560
grandfather had two really strange

1106
00:47:28,750 --> 00:47:26,630
paranormal experiences and he is the

1107
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:28,760
last person I would have ever thought

1108
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:33,410
one involved him being overtaken by a

1109
00:47:38,230 --> 00:47:35,810
car this is our country rude so there's

1110
00:47:39,430 --> 00:47:38,240
not much traffic anyway overtaken by a

1111
00:47:42,910 --> 00:47:39,440
car which

1112
00:47:46,570 --> 00:47:42,920
then disappeared and a ghost car and

1113
00:47:49,780 --> 00:47:46,580
apparently one week later there was a

1114
00:47:51,940 --> 00:47:49,790
crash at that point which is really

1115
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:51,950
strange and in a lot of time as he was

1116
00:47:56,470 --> 00:47:53,810
down in what they called the marker

1117
00:47:59,800 --> 00:47:56,480
there which is basically like a kind of

1118
00:48:02,980 --> 00:47:59,810
a links area you know not developed and

1119
00:48:04,900 --> 00:48:02,990
near the scene that kind of grass

1120
00:48:08,350 --> 00:48:04,910
and stuff you get near beaches and dunes

1121
00:48:11,500 --> 00:48:08,360
and somebody watched a fool like

1122
00:48:13,900 --> 00:48:11,510
nineteenth-century a funeral procession

1123
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:13,910
there's no roads there anything but

1124
00:48:19,690 --> 00:48:16,970
there was a ghost horse-drawn carriage

1125
00:48:22,570 --> 00:48:19,700
coffin mourners and all that going

1126
00:48:24,670 --> 00:48:22,580
towards this no disused Cemetery like

1127
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:24,680
there's a newer one now you know there's

1128
00:48:29,410 --> 00:48:27,170
absolutely no chance that this were this

1129
00:48:31,570 --> 00:48:29,420
was people recreating something over

1130
00:48:34,750 --> 00:48:31,580
ever and this was inducing the day as

1131
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:34,760
well and this this is from extremely

1132
00:48:39,580 --> 00:48:37,250
sober people who do not drink do not

1133
00:48:43,180 --> 00:48:39,590
take drugs don't even smoke do not swear

1134
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:43,190
and you know if I had not asked it would

1135
00:48:47,830 --> 00:48:44,930
never have been offered to me that

1136
00:48:49,720 --> 00:48:47,840
information so I always wonder about all

1137
00:48:52,240 --> 00:48:49,730
the people I haven't asked yet there

1138
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:52,250
must be a wealth of really interesting

1139
00:48:56,830 --> 00:48:54,290
stories out there from people who really

1140
00:48:58,480 --> 00:48:56,840
know this yeah it definitely is and

1141
00:49:00,130 --> 00:48:58,490
people just don't like to talk about it

1142
00:49:02,530 --> 00:49:00,140
because of the stigma that's attached to

1143
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:02,540
it they don't want to be called crazy

1144
00:49:05,860 --> 00:49:04,250
they don't yeah they don't want people

1145
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:05,870
to think you know that they've weak

1146
00:49:10,510 --> 00:49:08,210
minded or anything like that so yeah

1147
00:49:14,290 --> 00:49:10,520
funny thing is whenever I bring up my

1148
00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:14,300
one kind of apparition sighting it was

1149
00:49:19,450 --> 00:49:17,090
two of us saw it so I always say I don't

1150
00:49:21,970 --> 00:49:19,460
know if it's the spirit of a dead person

1151
00:49:24,220 --> 00:49:21,980
but we saw this and it went round a

1152
00:49:26,350 --> 00:49:24,230
corner and disappeared but funnily

1153
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:26,360
enough I I find that if you're quite

1154
00:49:31,870 --> 00:49:28,610
confident in your telling of it whether

1155
00:49:34,630 --> 00:49:31,880
people believe it or not nobody has a

1156
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:34,640
problem with it by suppose if you come

1157
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:37,010
across as being really timid about even

1158
00:49:40,990 --> 00:49:39,170
mentioning this or something maybe

1159
00:49:42,700 --> 00:49:41,000
people will think you're a bit kooky

1160
00:49:44,350 --> 00:49:42,710
because they sense that you're not very

1161
00:49:46,780 --> 00:49:44,360
sure about it yourself

1162
00:49:48,610 --> 00:49:46,790
whereas if you're saying oh I saw this I

1163
00:49:50,620 --> 00:49:48,620
don't know if it's paranormal or not but

1164
00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:50,630
this happened da da da but I've never

1165
00:49:55,180 --> 00:49:52,490
had a negative reaction

1166
00:49:56,580 --> 00:49:55,190
thus far no that's it yeah that comes

1167
00:49:58,870 --> 00:49:56,590
back to what we were saying about

1168
00:50:00,340 --> 00:49:58,880
presenting at academic conferences and

1169
00:50:03,550 --> 00:50:00,350
things you have to be willing to present

1170
00:50:05,859 --> 00:50:03,560
these aspects of your own experience

1171
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:05,869
that there are a fundamental part of our

1172
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:07,850
understanding of ourselves and of our

1173
00:50:12,130 --> 00:50:10,010
relationship to the that the rest of the

1174
00:50:14,140 --> 00:50:12,140
world and if we can't talk about the

1175
00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:14,150
experiences that we have in life then

1176
00:50:18,490 --> 00:50:15,710
you know something's gone seriously

1177
00:50:21,280 --> 00:50:18,500
wrong somewhere I think the human mind

1178
00:50:24,850 --> 00:50:21,290
and society in general has got the most

1179
00:50:28,330 --> 00:50:24,860
amazing capacity for ignoring things

1180
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:28,340
which should be huge questions at the

1181
00:50:33,190 --> 00:50:31,010
forefront of the mains ever really I

1182
00:50:35,820 --> 00:50:33,200
cannot believe that it should be on the

1183
00:50:39,210 --> 00:50:35,830
six o'clock news every single night

1184
00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:39,220
running the story said how is it these

1185
00:50:46,570 --> 00:50:43,070
1000 ton blocks were quarried and moved

1186
00:50:48,820 --> 00:50:46,580
at Baalbek in Lebanon you know it's just

1187
00:50:51,850 --> 00:50:48,830
not talked about but you couldn't move

1188
00:50:53,830 --> 00:50:51,860
these things with it today's cranes and

1189
00:50:55,240 --> 00:50:53,840
stuff and you think if this was supposed

1190
00:50:58,230 --> 00:50:55,250
to have been done a couple of thousand

1191
00:51:01,510 --> 00:50:58,240
years ago you know this is it's insane

1192
00:51:03,430 --> 00:51:01,520
difficult mysteries and most people

1193
00:51:06,310 --> 00:51:03,440
haven't even heard of them without a

1194
00:51:08,770 --> 00:51:06,320
doubt if it might not be active

1195
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:08,780
censorship but certainly passive

1196
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:10,810
censorship you know if you've read

1197
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:12,290
Michael Cremo

1198
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:16,130
forbidden archeology if even one percent

1199
00:51:22,300 --> 00:51:19,010
of what he writes in the in there is

1200
00:51:24,970 --> 00:51:22,310
true it's just stunning for what it does

1201
00:51:26,980 --> 00:51:24,980
to a store achill timeline we'll have

1202
00:51:34,850 --> 00:51:26,990
more of that in our next segment with

1203
00:51:34,860 --> 00:51:38,380
[Music]

1204
00:51:48,570 --> 00:51:42,360
you are listening to GCN

1205
00:51:50,550 --> 00:51:48,580
visit GCN live.com today attack of the

1206
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rocket has been well-received by critics

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and readers alike it's a thrill a minute

1208
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story you'll never forget a former US

1209
00:52:00,360 --> 00:51:58,420
military intelligence officer is haunted

1210
00:52:02,820 --> 00:52:00,370
by intense dreams about a beautiful

1211
00:52:05,970 --> 00:52:02,830
woman pleading for his help after a

1212
00:52:08,070 --> 00:52:05,980
terrible battle in outer space but the

1213
00:52:09,930 --> 00:52:08,080
dreams turned out to be true and thrust

1214
00:52:13,020 --> 00:52:09,940
him into a telepathic love affair with a

1215
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:13,030
woman whose faraway planet is intent on

1216
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destroying the earth and now the

1217
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gripping tale continues in but coming of

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the protectors it's the second book of

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the raccoons trilogy a galaxy spanning

1220
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adventure that pits our hapless heroes

1221
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against powerful fanatical enemies that

1222
00:52:33,030 --> 00:52:30,460
threaten the lives of freedom loving

1223
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beings everywhere attack of the rock

1224
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ODEs and the coming of the protectors

1225
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1227
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1228
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1229
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1230
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1231
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1232
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1233
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1234
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1235
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1236
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1237
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1238
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1240
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1241
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1242
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1243
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1244
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1245
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1246
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1247
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1248
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1249
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1251
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[Music]

1253
00:53:59,780 --> 00:53:56,060
[Applause]

1254
00:54:04,090 --> 00:53:59,790
welcome back to the para cast the gold

1255
00:54:12,590 --> 00:54:04,100
standard of paranormal radio and now

1256
00:54:15,140 --> 00:54:12,600
here's Jane Steinberg gonca I wanted to

1257
00:54:18,980 --> 00:54:15,150
ask you more about that particular book

1258
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:18,990
forbidden archeology yeah okay GOx uh we

1259
00:54:23,030 --> 00:54:20,490
wanted to talk about that are you

1260
00:54:25,640 --> 00:54:23,040
familiar with it dr. hunter I haven't

1261
00:54:26,810 --> 00:54:25,650
read it but I have heard of a Congress

1262
00:54:29,930 --> 00:54:26,820
give us a brief summary

1263
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:29,940
well basically Michael Cremo has

1264
00:54:38,349 --> 00:54:33,810
researched this very very detailed book

1265
00:54:42,140 --> 00:54:38,359
in which he cites instances of

1266
00:54:45,890 --> 00:54:42,150
archaeological discoveries and findings

1267
00:54:48,830 --> 00:54:45,900
that seem to have been kind of ignored

1268
00:54:50,990 --> 00:54:48,840
deliberately after things like you'll

1269
00:54:53,690 --> 00:54:51,000
have heard of new parts which is an

1270
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:53,700
acronym for out of police artifacts a

1271
00:54:58,670 --> 00:54:55,770
very simple example would be the

1272
00:55:02,300 --> 00:54:58,680
Antikythera mechanism which was a kind

1273
00:55:05,840 --> 00:55:02,310
of a cross between a sundial a sextant

1274
00:55:08,740 --> 00:55:05,850
with something had cogs and gears and it

1275
00:55:12,380 --> 00:55:08,750
was some kind of astronomical clock or

1276
00:55:14,510 --> 00:55:12,390
something like that but as far as -

1277
00:55:17,180 --> 00:55:14,520
history is taught in high school today

1278
00:55:19,190 --> 00:55:17,190
there's no way that the ancient Greeks

1279
00:55:22,730 --> 00:55:19,200
should have had the precision

1280
00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:22,740
engineering skills and knowledge to have

1281
00:55:26,810 --> 00:55:24,810
created such a thing I mean there are a

1282
00:55:28,310 --> 00:55:26,820
lot of parts missing but now you're

1283
00:55:32,390 --> 00:55:28,320
starting to think it's actually almost

1284
00:55:34,310 --> 00:55:32,400
kinda like a mechanical computer but far

1285
00:55:38,330 --> 00:55:34,320
far even weirder than that there's lots

1286
00:55:41,330 --> 00:55:38,340
of instances of like miners digging down

1287
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:41,340
and then stumbling across pre dug

1288
00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:44,490
tunnels of fantastic quality that must

1289
00:55:49,070 --> 00:55:46,410
have been there according to the rock

1290
00:55:51,140 --> 00:55:49,080
strata above and below millions years

1291
00:55:55,220 --> 00:55:51,150
ago there's lots of artifacts have been

1292
00:55:58,400 --> 00:55:55,230
found we're inside coal seams and there

1293
00:56:00,920 --> 00:55:58,410
is no real scientific explanation as to

1294
00:56:04,340 --> 00:56:00,930
how something from do you know the

1295
00:56:07,790 --> 00:56:04,350
current day or 500 years ago can end up

1296
00:56:11,180 --> 00:56:07,800
right embedded inside stone that

1297
00:56:14,330 --> 00:56:11,190
half a billion years old you know we

1298
00:56:17,390 --> 00:56:14,340
date things in antiquity if we can with

1299
00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:17,400
organic material and we can carbon date

1300
00:56:22,460 --> 00:56:19,650
them but it's very difficult to date

1301
00:56:24,890 --> 00:56:22,470
stored alone you can't but when you get

1302
00:56:27,530 --> 00:56:24,900
some kind of organic matter you can take

1303
00:56:29,960 --> 00:56:27,540
a can I guess and obviously archaeology

1304
00:56:33,230 --> 00:56:29,970
is based on the fact that if you find

1305
00:56:35,930 --> 00:56:33,240
certain things in certain geographical

1306
00:56:38,990 --> 00:56:35,940
strata you can roughly date these things

1307
00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:39,000
to to that strata but there's thousands

1308
00:56:44,109 --> 00:56:41,730
thousands of examples of really strange

1309
00:56:47,480 --> 00:56:44,119
things that seem to indicate either

1310
00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:47,490
tells humans have been on the go much

1311
00:56:55,340 --> 00:56:51,510
much longer than is taught now or some

1312
00:56:56,300 --> 00:56:55,350
other intelligence was around doing

1313
00:56:59,240 --> 00:56:56,310
certain things

1314
00:57:02,000 --> 00:56:59,250
so basically forbidden archeology is

1315
00:57:05,390 --> 00:57:02,010
exactly what the title is it's the

1316
00:57:09,590 --> 00:57:05,400
mainstream academia in terms of

1317
00:57:12,859 --> 00:57:09,600
archaeology our wantedly ignoring lots

1318
00:57:16,910 --> 00:57:12,869
and lots of facts and discoveries

1319
00:57:19,190 --> 00:57:16,920
because many people in power will not

1320
00:57:21,380 --> 00:57:19,200
power but it's to say in academics who

1321
00:57:22,849 --> 00:57:21,390
have a good reputation that was built on

1322
00:57:25,010 --> 00:57:22,859
this work and that work and they've

1323
00:57:27,470 --> 00:57:25,020
published this and they respected well

1324
00:57:30,470 --> 00:57:27,480
if somebody comes along with one thing

1325
00:57:32,450 --> 00:57:30,480
that absolutely throws a spanner in the

1326
00:57:35,230 --> 00:57:32,460
works that they're that they may have

1327
00:57:38,599 --> 00:57:35,240
said okay so I date this particular

1328
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:38,609
civilization between seven thousand and

1329
00:57:43,190 --> 00:57:41,010
six and a half thousand BC whatever and

1330
00:57:46,250 --> 00:57:43,200
if somebody comes up with something

1331
00:57:49,490 --> 00:57:46,260
completely blows out the water this

1332
00:57:53,210 --> 00:57:49,500
person who will have a lot of a sway in

1333
00:57:57,710 --> 00:57:53,220
their respective institution they will

1334
00:58:00,950 --> 00:57:57,720
not necessarily get this research bond

1335
00:58:04,340 --> 00:58:00,960
but will certainly not try to publicize

1336
00:58:06,500 --> 00:58:04,350
it or give it any kind of a publicity or

1337
00:58:08,090 --> 00:58:06,510
help along it we are told it's said I

1338
00:58:11,180 --> 00:58:08,100
can't remember the term that creamer

1339
00:58:14,060 --> 00:58:11,190
uses it's not censorship but it has a

1340
00:58:16,220 --> 00:58:14,070
term for it where basically things are

1341
00:58:19,580 --> 00:58:16,230
just not supported and they're left to

1342
00:58:21,350 --> 00:58:19,590
kind of just go by the wayside there are

1343
00:58:23,930 --> 00:58:21,360
many instances of this because be

1344
00:58:26,660 --> 00:58:23,940
in the West we have a time line that's

1345
00:58:29,090 --> 00:58:26,670
this out of Africa thing various

1346
00:58:31,790 --> 00:58:29,100
humanoids then we did this we did this

1347
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:31,800
and then circa 8,000 years ago whatever

1348
00:58:38,720 --> 00:58:35,850
we started to form you know a do farming

1349
00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:38,730
and we started maybe to of banking da da

1350
00:58:43,550 --> 00:58:41,520
da da da but there are so many objects

1351
00:58:45,490 --> 00:58:43,560
and artifacts in the world that

1352
00:58:48,290 --> 00:58:45,500
obviously sure that we were doing

1353
00:58:50,540 --> 00:58:48,300
incredible things much much much much

1354
00:58:52,490 --> 00:58:50,550
earlier it really brings to mind the

1355
00:58:55,280 --> 00:58:52,500
work of Charles port which is I found

1356
00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:55,290
particularly influential and his idea of

1357
00:58:59,960 --> 00:58:57,690
them damned backs my last book was

1358
00:59:01,480 --> 00:58:59,970
called damned facts it's kind of like a

1359
00:59:03,710 --> 00:59:01,490
40 and approach to religious studies

1360
00:59:06,650 --> 00:59:03,720
yeah this idea that there are these

1361
00:59:08,720 --> 00:59:06,660
phenomena these experiences and then

1362
00:59:10,340 --> 00:59:08,730
these strange objects and things that

1363
00:59:12,710 --> 00:59:10,350
science really doesn't know what to do

1364
00:59:14,330 --> 00:59:12,720
with them and the best it can come up

1365
00:59:16,940 --> 00:59:14,340
with this to kind of bracket them out

1366
00:59:19,100 --> 00:59:16,950
and ignore them so yeah really

1367
00:59:21,110 --> 00:59:19,110
interesting stuff there are all these

1368
00:59:23,800 --> 00:59:21,120
they're still in the circle kind of

1369
00:59:26,030 --> 00:59:23,810
things all over Southern Africa

1370
00:59:28,610 --> 00:59:26,040
absolutely hundreds of thousands of

1371
00:59:30,860 --> 00:59:28,620
these things and archaeologists these

1372
00:59:33,010 --> 00:59:30,870
days they will try to see that there

1373
00:59:36,530 --> 00:59:33,020
were some kind of air you know cattle

1374
00:59:38,510 --> 00:59:36,540
pens or something which is just insane

1375
00:59:40,610 --> 00:59:38,520
because they amount of work that was

1376
00:59:42,560 --> 00:59:40,620
gone into building him you wouldn't do

1377
00:59:45,470 --> 00:59:42,570
that plus there are other like

1378
00:59:47,540 --> 00:59:45,480
functional problems with them that just

1379
00:59:50,330 --> 00:59:47,550
make them completely unsuitable for the

1380
00:59:53,570 --> 00:59:50,340
supposin stated prints purpose and these

1381
00:59:56,750 --> 00:59:53,580
things also are there were so many of

1382
00:59:59,900 --> 00:59:56,760
them that supposedly there were not that

1383
01:00:03,950 --> 00:59:59,910
many people living in this south part of

1384
01:00:05,810 --> 01:00:03,960
the continent of Africa 10 15 20

1385
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:05,820
thousand years ago there wasn't that

1386
01:00:10,340 --> 01:00:08,730
much much more population then yeah who

1387
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:10,350
built all these things you know there

1388
01:00:13,790 --> 01:00:11,970
was like hundreds and hundreds of

1389
01:00:16,580 --> 01:00:13,800
thousands of them there are so many

1390
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:16,590
contradictions but you know there are so

1391
01:00:23,200 --> 01:00:18,890
many examples of strange things like

1392
01:00:27,440 --> 01:00:23,210
maybe let's say for instance at large

1393
01:00:31,010 --> 01:00:27,450
salt deposits or lots of seashells of

1394
01:00:33,820 --> 01:00:31,020
the deposits up high and mountains where

1395
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:33,830
you think well how did that get here

1396
01:00:40,600 --> 01:00:36,250
in South America and things like that

1397
01:00:44,650 --> 01:00:40,610
for me just simply just take the largest

1398
01:00:49,180 --> 01:00:44,660
of their quality blocks and tell me get

1399
01:00:52,510 --> 01:00:49,190
me get me the foremost stonemason civil

1400
01:00:55,390 --> 01:00:52,520
engineers architects whatever and just

1401
01:00:58,330 --> 01:00:55,400
get them over to Lebanon get them to

1402
01:01:00,820 --> 01:00:58,340
tell us how were these things body and

1403
01:01:03,460 --> 01:01:00,830
however they move simple is up but it is

1404
01:01:05,590 --> 01:01:03,470
completely ignored is completely ignored

1405
01:01:09,790 --> 01:01:05,600
most people don't even know that these

1406
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:09,800
conundrums exist hmm ya know I think we

1407
01:01:13,660 --> 01:01:11,450
sound that we started to face up to some

1408
01:01:15,370 --> 01:01:13,670
of these mysteries and really you know

1409
01:01:18,460 --> 01:01:15,380
think about them seriously for a change

1410
01:01:20,530 --> 01:01:18,470
instead of just even Bassett of you

1411
01:01:24,340 --> 01:01:20,540
fault well ufology he calls a truce

1412
01:01:28,270 --> 01:01:24,350
embargo he'll go with that yeah sounds

1413
01:01:31,450 --> 01:01:28,280
about right yeah were your main interest

1414
01:01:33,490 --> 01:01:31,460
in terms of there anthropologically

1415
01:01:36,970 --> 01:01:33,500
speaking my main interest

1416
01:01:39,180 --> 01:01:36,980
anthropologically speaking yeah be at

1417
01:01:41,500 --> 01:01:39,190
the moment it's shifting away from

1418
01:01:42,850 --> 01:01:41,510
spirit mediumship which I'm still

1419
01:01:44,380 --> 01:01:42,860
interested in spirit mediumship

1420
01:01:48,970 --> 01:01:44,390
obviously but I'm moving towards

1421
01:01:52,510 --> 01:01:48,980
thinking about how we relate to our kind

1422
01:01:54,700 --> 01:01:52,520
of environment how we relate to ecology

1423
01:01:57,220 --> 01:01:54,710
and the relationships that exist between

1424
01:01:59,230 --> 01:01:57,230
different kinds of organisms in our

1425
01:02:02,290 --> 01:01:59,240
environment and ourselves it's kind of

1426
01:02:04,990 --> 01:02:02,300
the direction I'm heading in now but I

1427
01:02:06,400 --> 01:02:05,000
see a lot of really important

1428
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:06,410
connections between the work I've done

1429
01:02:10,680 --> 01:02:08,810
in the paranormal and the work that I'm

1430
01:02:14,890 --> 01:02:10,690
starting to do in thinking about ecology

1431
01:02:17,350 --> 01:02:14,900
this is a division you're talking yes

1432
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:17,360
yeah yeah I don't know if you know much

1433
01:02:22,180 --> 01:02:19,970
about animism which pointed us yes

1434
01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:22,190
please but I was going to ask you are

1435
01:02:29,170 --> 01:02:25,490
you aware of that there III on radio for

1436
01:02:31,180 --> 01:02:29,180
over in the UK it's a non music station

1437
01:02:34,030 --> 01:02:31,190
you know for the kind of intellectual I

1438
01:02:36,760 --> 01:02:34,040
suppose but I listen to radio for and if

1439
01:02:39,730 --> 01:02:36,770
you know Jim al-khalili he hosts a

1440
01:02:42,340 --> 01:02:39,740
program called the life scientific every

1441
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:42,350
week he interviews you know and notable

1442
01:02:46,570 --> 01:02:44,690
scientists someone he had on recently

1443
01:02:48,430 --> 01:02:46,580
and

1444
01:02:53,170 --> 01:02:48,440
the person was going on about their

1445
01:02:55,630 --> 01:02:53,180
research into how trees and other plants

1446
01:02:59,320 --> 01:02:55,640
are communicating with each other

1447
01:03:01,360 --> 01:02:59,330
through fungus and fungi and stuff and

1448
01:03:05,020 --> 01:03:01,370
it was insane it was almost like one

1449
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:05,030
tree can warn another one that was part

1450
01:03:09,730 --> 01:03:07,250
of its family that this is going to

1451
01:03:13,300 --> 01:03:09,740
happen and they can choose to share

1452
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:13,310
resources or not and the communication

1453
01:03:18,190 --> 01:03:16,250
is and now we know Andy and the 80s

1454
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:18,200
stuff people used to laugh at Prince

1455
01:03:22,390 --> 01:03:20,210
Charles because he would talk to plants

1456
01:03:24,940 --> 01:03:22,400
and stuff and no I'm starting to think

1457
01:03:26,860 --> 01:03:24,950
he might have been onto something we're

1458
01:03:29,350 --> 01:03:26,870
onto something - we got to do this brick

1459
01:03:30,820 --> 01:03:29,360
we don't talk to plants here but maybe

1460
01:03:32,700 --> 01:03:30,830
we'll get a better response than

1461
01:03:36,340 --> 01:03:32,710
sometimes we get from humans

1462
01:03:41,820 --> 01:03:36,350
dr. hunter cogs and gene you're in the

1463
01:03:49,900 --> 01:03:46,920
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after time if you follow the money then

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you understand why America's in the

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1520
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fighting a war on terror and that wasn't

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going to Iraq which was another lie just

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1564
01:07:57,450 --> 01:07:54,280
if you have a comment or question about

1565
01:08:00,780 --> 01:07:57,460
the para caste sent it to news at the

1566
01:08:03,630 --> 01:08:00,790
para caste calm that's news at the para

1567
01:08:06,300 --> 01:08:03,640
caste calm and don't forget to visit our

1568
01:08:11,820 --> 01:08:06,310
famous para caste community forums at

1569
01:08:15,420 --> 01:08:11,830
forum dot the para cast calm cogs Makai

1570
01:08:17,490 --> 01:08:15,430
is our guest co-host the book from dr.

1571
01:08:19,740 --> 01:08:17,500
Jack hunter and published by Ravi Graham

1572
01:08:22,820 --> 01:08:19,750
is engaging the anomalous collected

1573
01:08:25,860 --> 01:08:22,830
essays an anthropology the paranormal

1574
01:08:27,510 --> 01:08:25,870
mediumship an extraordinary experience

1575
01:08:30,900 --> 01:08:27,520
and we notice here you have an

1576
01:08:32,820 --> 01:08:30,910
introduction or forward from trickster

1577
01:08:35,579 --> 01:08:32,830
theorists George Hansen has been on the

1578
01:08:37,950 --> 01:08:35,589
power cast how'd you happen to select

1579
01:08:40,410 --> 01:08:37,960
him well I've been in touch with George

1580
01:08:42,950 --> 01:08:40,420
for quite a long time actually I can't

1581
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:42,960
remember who initiated the conversation

1582
01:08:47,550 --> 01:08:45,730
originally but George has been a big

1583
01:08:49,860 --> 01:08:47,560
supporter of my work since then

1584
01:08:52,079 --> 01:08:49,870
basically since they started you know

1585
01:08:54,480 --> 01:08:52,089
publicly talking about my research into

1586
01:08:55,770 --> 01:08:54,490
the paranormal when I read first read

1587
01:08:58,400 --> 01:08:55,780
George's book the tricks from the

1588
01:09:01,170 --> 01:08:58,410
paranormal my mind was blown because

1589
01:09:03,090 --> 01:09:01,180
here he was kind of laying out all of

1590
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:03,100
these connections between anthropology

1591
01:09:09,390 --> 01:09:05,650
in the paranormal so he's a clever guy

1592
01:09:11,370 --> 01:09:09,400
yeah he's very clever guy he was a big

1593
01:09:13,470 --> 01:09:11,380
influence on me and then over the years

1594
01:09:15,450 --> 01:09:13,480
we've kind of stayed in touch with each

1595
01:09:18,480 --> 01:09:15,460
other like I say he's always been very

1596
01:09:20,340 --> 01:09:18,490
supportive and I've tried to promote his

1597
01:09:21,630 --> 01:09:20,350
book as often as I can as well because I

1598
01:09:23,910 --> 01:09:21,640
think it's a really important book that

1599
01:09:25,470 --> 01:09:23,920
more anthropologists should read

1600
01:09:27,450 --> 01:09:25,480
I know larger psychologists are

1601
01:09:29,939 --> 01:09:27,460
interested in it but Antipas retreated

1602
01:09:33,509 --> 01:09:29,949
to Jack uragan to

1603
01:09:35,969 --> 01:09:33,519
explain animism oh yes because many of

1604
01:09:41,579 --> 01:09:35,979
our listeners may not be aware of what

1605
01:09:44,279 --> 01:09:41,589
what that is yeah so animism is the

1606
01:09:46,349 --> 01:09:44,289
belief in well the original definition

1607
01:09:48,809 --> 01:09:46,359
of animism because animism itself is an

1608
01:09:52,439 --> 01:09:48,819
anthropological - it was developed by a

1609
01:09:54,269 --> 01:09:52,449
guy called EB Tyler who is a he was the

1610
01:09:56,549 --> 01:09:54,279
first chair in anthropology Oxford

1611
01:09:57,719 --> 01:09:56,559
University so you know there's a good

1612
01:10:00,209 --> 01:09:57,729
case for saying that he was the first

1613
01:10:02,910 --> 01:10:00,219
anthropologist and he coined this term

1614
01:10:05,580 --> 01:10:02,920
animism to refer to the belief in

1615
01:10:07,350 --> 01:10:05,590
spiritual beings and he understood the

1616
01:10:09,779 --> 01:10:07,360
belief in spiritual beings to be the

1617
01:10:12,060 --> 01:10:09,789
most fundamental or the most basic

1618
01:10:13,319 --> 01:10:12,070
definition of religion so we're saying

1619
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:13,329
that if we look at all of the world

1620
01:10:18,410 --> 01:10:15,130
religions you know from high

1621
01:10:20,819 --> 01:10:18,420
Christianity right down to the kind of

1622
01:10:24,810 --> 01:10:20,829
indigenous tribal religions what we see

1623
01:10:27,810 --> 01:10:24,820
is belief in spiritual beings okay so a

1624
01:10:30,419 --> 01:10:27,820
part of Tyler's theory of animism was

1625
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:30,429
that what he called primitive people

1626
01:10:35,310 --> 01:10:33,010
were basically misinterpreting otherwise

1627
01:10:36,989 --> 01:10:35,320
normal experiences like dreaming and

1628
01:10:40,009 --> 01:10:36,999
sleep and other kinds of experiences

1629
01:10:44,759 --> 01:10:40,019
like that as evidence of non-physical

1630
01:10:46,770 --> 01:10:44,769
spirit so the earliest form of animism

1631
01:10:50,160 --> 01:10:46,780
as an anthropological category is kind

1632
01:10:51,390 --> 01:10:50,170
of is kind of problematic because it

1633
01:10:54,149 --> 01:10:51,400
comes with all of these assumptions

1634
01:10:56,129 --> 01:10:54,159
about BIA about the people who believe

1635
01:10:58,469 --> 01:10:56,139
in spirits okay so it's saying that they

1636
01:11:01,699 --> 01:10:58,479
are kind of primitive or that they they

1637
01:11:05,370 --> 01:11:01,709
don't know what they're talking yeah

1638
01:11:07,410 --> 01:11:05,380
does it know it doesn't exactly but that

1639
01:11:09,949 --> 01:11:07,420
was a part of his whole plan because he

1640
01:11:13,529 --> 01:11:09,959
was interested in trying to kind of

1641
01:11:14,640 --> 01:11:13,539
discredit the major religions discredit

1642
01:11:17,310 --> 01:11:14,650
Christianity and things and basically

1643
01:11:18,870 --> 01:11:17,320
what he was saying was that Christianity

1644
01:11:20,819 --> 01:11:18,880
is exactly the same as so-called

1645
01:11:22,949 --> 01:11:20,829
primitive religions but as

1646
01:11:25,259 --> 01:11:22,959
anthropologists started to move out of

1647
01:11:27,569 --> 01:11:25,269
libraries and actually go into the field

1648
01:11:29,459 --> 01:11:27,579
and do research themselves this is what

1649
01:11:30,959 --> 01:11:29,469
ethnography is it's field research in

1650
01:11:32,689 --> 01:11:30,969
anthropology it's the main kind of

1651
01:11:34,859 --> 01:11:32,699
research tool in anthropology

1652
01:11:37,259 --> 01:11:34,869
anthropology started to realize that

1653
01:11:39,569 --> 01:11:37,269
animism wasn't just a belief in spirits

1654
01:11:42,629 --> 01:11:39,579
that it wasn't actually a whole other

1655
01:11:43,609 --> 01:11:42,639
way of of living in the world and more

1656
01:11:46,180 --> 01:11:43,619
recently

1657
01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:46,190
we've had this idea of the new animism

1658
01:11:50,450 --> 01:11:48,719
emerging which is an understanding of

1659
01:11:53,660 --> 01:11:50,460
animism not just as the belief in

1660
01:11:56,510 --> 01:11:53,670
spiritual beings but as a whole kind of

1661
01:11:59,540 --> 01:11:56,520
worldview or I would use the term an

1662
01:12:02,270 --> 01:11:59,550
ontology based around the idea of

1663
01:12:04,700 --> 01:12:02,280
relationships between persons in an

1664
01:12:06,979 --> 01:12:04,710
animistic society for example persons as

1665
01:12:09,859 --> 01:12:06,989
a category would include other kinds of

1666
01:12:12,169 --> 01:12:09,869
things not necessarily human things so

1667
01:12:14,839 --> 01:12:12,179
you could have rock verses and tree

1668
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:14,849
persons animal persons and plant persons

1669
01:12:19,850 --> 01:12:17,280
and and obviously spirit persons as well

1670
01:12:22,100 --> 01:12:19,860
the Anthropology is now coming around to

1671
01:12:25,390 --> 01:12:22,110
the idea that animism is all about

1672
01:12:27,919 --> 01:12:25,400
relationships relationships between

1673
01:12:30,500 --> 01:12:27,929
ourselves and our societies and then

1674
01:12:32,510 --> 01:12:30,510
other than human person and this is

1675
01:12:35,030 --> 01:12:32,520
where again this connection between the

1676
01:12:37,220 --> 01:12:35,040
paranormal and our relationship to

1677
01:12:39,290 --> 01:12:37,230
ecology starts to come in because if you

1678
01:12:41,629 --> 01:12:39,300
look at the paranormal as a whole and

1679
01:12:44,209 --> 01:12:41,639
think about things like going all the

1680
01:12:46,070 --> 01:12:44,219
way from like UFOs and aliens to Bigfoot

1681
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:46,080
and ghosts and stuff what we're really

1682
01:12:50,990 --> 01:12:48,210
talking about is a universe that's

1683
01:12:52,490 --> 01:12:51,000
populated by countless different kinds

1684
01:12:54,950 --> 01:12:52,500
of minds and different kinds of

1685
01:12:57,020 --> 01:12:54,960
intelligences what we have in paranormal

1686
01:12:58,580 --> 01:12:57,030
experiences are instances of

1687
01:13:01,399 --> 01:12:58,590
communication between these different

1688
01:13:03,919 --> 01:13:01,409
kinds of minds to retake the paranormal

1689
01:13:06,500 --> 01:13:03,929
as a whole what we end up with really is

1690
01:13:08,060 --> 01:13:06,510
is an animist worldview that there are

1691
01:13:10,520 --> 01:13:08,070
these other minds in the world and that

1692
01:13:12,830 --> 01:13:10,530
we can interact and relate with them so

1693
01:13:15,830 --> 01:13:12,840
it the kind of crossovers between this

1694
01:13:18,740 --> 01:13:15,840
animistic perspective the paranormal and

1695
01:13:20,780 --> 01:13:18,750
then our relationship of ecology which

1696
01:13:22,760 --> 01:13:20,790
is actually at the moment in the west

1697
01:13:25,839 --> 01:13:22,770
lobe is kind of like a pretty bad

1698
01:13:27,859 --> 01:13:25,849
relationship we're destroying all of our

1699
01:13:29,780 --> 01:13:27,869
ecosystems we're losing all of our

1700
01:13:33,200 --> 01:13:29,790
different kinds of plant and animal

1701
01:13:35,959 --> 01:13:33,210
diversity so what I'm thinking is that

1702
01:13:38,300 --> 01:13:35,969
perhaps through re engaging with this

1703
01:13:41,570 --> 01:13:38,310
animistic worldview we might be able to

1704
01:13:43,370 --> 01:13:41,580
sort out our our bad relationship with

1705
01:13:46,850 --> 01:13:43,380
the earth with our ecology and build

1706
01:13:49,430 --> 01:13:46,860
something new and interesting dr. hunter

1707
01:13:51,530 --> 01:13:49,440
let me just throw this in here oh right

1708
01:13:54,560 --> 01:13:51,540
one the message is a common message

1709
01:13:56,370 --> 01:13:54,570
received from so called entities they

1710
01:13:59,930 --> 01:13:56,380
can be space people

1711
01:14:01,920 --> 01:13:59,940
one of the things we hear is the

1712
01:14:06,720 --> 01:14:01,930
admonition we got to get our acts

1713
01:14:10,230 --> 01:14:06,730
together stop war we need to follow the

1714
01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:10,240
edicts of peace and all that is that

1715
01:14:16,260 --> 01:14:13,330
something that these spiritualists

1716
01:14:19,530 --> 01:14:16,270
contactees whatever are making up or are

1717
01:14:21,680 --> 01:14:19,540
these entities really concerned so much

1718
01:14:24,540 --> 01:14:21,690
that they have to give these warnings

1719
01:14:26,730 --> 01:14:24,550
yeah well again we're coming back to the

1720
01:14:30,810 --> 01:14:26,740
question of what these entities act yeah

1721
01:14:33,630 --> 01:14:30,820
I mean we know that John Mack's work

1722
01:14:36,060 --> 01:14:33,640
with UFOs for example he picked up on

1723
01:14:37,950 --> 01:14:36,070
this kind of ecological angle there but

1724
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:37,960
a lot of the a lot of abductees and

1725
01:14:42,200 --> 01:14:39,730
contactees come back from their

1726
01:14:46,170 --> 01:14:42,210
experiences with a renewed interest in

1727
01:14:47,640 --> 01:14:46,180
ecology so I think there's you know

1728
01:14:49,860 --> 01:14:47,650
there's if we take this animistic

1729
01:14:51,870 --> 01:14:49,870
perspective into into consideration and

1730
01:14:53,640 --> 01:14:51,880
the more broader anthropological view as

1731
01:14:55,200 --> 01:14:53,650
well you've got to ask whether these

1732
01:14:57,930 --> 01:14:55,210
entities that people are interacting

1733
01:15:00,450 --> 01:14:57,940
with are actually extraterrestrial so

1734
01:15:02,340 --> 01:15:00,460
whether there may be some way that the

1735
01:15:05,520 --> 01:15:02,350
maybe that the earth is trying to

1736
01:15:08,130 --> 01:15:05,530
communicate with us in some way or

1737
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:08,140
whether these are kind of like can go

1738
01:15:12,450 --> 01:15:09,970
down I like a jack belay kind of roof

1739
01:15:14,820 --> 01:15:12,460
but maybe these are like elemental earth

1740
01:15:17,400 --> 01:15:14,830
spirits or fairies or whatever we want

1741
01:15:19,440 --> 01:15:17,410
to call them trying to reinitiate this

1742
01:15:22,110 --> 01:15:19,450
communication that we've lost you know

1743
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:22,120
over the last yeah at least 500 odd

1744
01:15:27,300 --> 01:15:24,640
years so yeah I think there is a

1745
01:15:29,370 --> 01:15:27,310
connection there and that maybe we need

1746
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:29,380
to start we need to possibly stop

1747
01:15:33,900 --> 01:15:31,440
thinking about these beings as

1748
01:15:36,740 --> 01:15:33,910
extraterrestrials and maybe think of

1749
01:15:40,220 --> 01:15:36,750
them as like earth nature spirits or

1750
01:15:42,450 --> 01:15:40,230
something like that other kinds of

1751
01:15:46,110 --> 01:15:42,460
intelligences other kinds of minds that

1752
01:15:48,330 --> 01:15:46,120
are indigenous to this planet so

1753
01:15:52,380 --> 01:15:48,340
basically maybe our planet is warning us

1754
01:15:54,390 --> 01:15:52,390
to stop harming it yeah maybe yeah

1755
01:15:57,960 --> 01:15:54,400
definitely now how do you think about

1756
01:16:00,450 --> 01:15:57,970
this here about the fact that we have

1757
01:16:04,110 --> 01:16:00,460
this large group of people that will

1758
01:16:09,030 --> 01:16:04,120
tell you that UFOs must be physical

1759
01:16:10,770 --> 01:16:09,040
alien spaceships and they look at this

1760
01:16:12,810 --> 01:16:10,780
other phenomena that we've been talking

1761
01:16:15,420 --> 01:16:12,820
about near-death experiences

1762
01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:15,430
interactions with other beings well

1763
01:16:17,910 --> 01:16:17,290
maybe it's a fantasy or if it's an

1764
01:16:20,430 --> 01:16:17,920
abduction

1765
01:16:23,010 --> 01:16:20,440
we're meeting et let's continue that

1766
01:16:26,580 --> 01:16:23,020
discussion in our next segment with

1767
01:16:33,630 --> 01:16:26,590
Jeanne cogs and Jack you're in the para

1768
01:16:33,640 --> 01:16:39,160
[Music]

1769
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:41,660
thank you for listening to GCN

1770
01:16:47,660 --> 01:16:43,050
[Music]

1771
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[Music]

1799
01:18:07,139 --> 01:18:04,539
for us a radio news on Wendy King tears

1800
01:18:10,259 --> 01:18:07,149
and hugs on Capitol Hill in the office

1801
01:18:13,109 --> 01:18:10,269
of Utah senator Orrin Hatch as Joshua

1802
01:18:14,909 --> 01:18:13,119
holt is reunited with his family the

1803
01:18:17,339 --> 01:18:14,919
Mormon missionary had been in a

1804
01:18:19,619 --> 01:18:17,349
Venezuelan prison for nearly two years

1805
01:18:21,689 --> 01:18:19,629
until he was suddenly released after

1806
01:18:23,609 --> 01:18:21,699
lots of appeals from US officials here's

1807
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:23,619
Holt speaking with the president at the

1808
01:18:26,909 --> 01:18:24,489
Oval Office

1809
01:18:28,139 --> 01:18:26,919
I'm just overwhelmed with gratitude for

1810
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you guys for everything that you've done

1811
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for the support of my wife through those

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1813
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difficult three years not not really the

1814
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1815
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for but but we're still together

1816
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starting off a marriage rough but now

1817
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we're gonna be together you're listening

1818
01:18:51,750 --> 01:18:49,479
to us a radio news for some reason being

1819
01:18:54,059 --> 01:18:51,760
unpatriotic has become a trend as a way

1820
01:18:56,939 --> 01:18:54,069
to protest perceived injustice 'as in

1821
01:18:58,589 --> 01:18:56,949
our country but true patriots understand

1822
01:19:01,290 --> 01:18:58,599
that America stands for liberty and

1823
01:19:03,299 --> 01:19:01,300
justice for all standing for the flag

1824
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and our national anthem is a sign of

1825
01:19:07,500 --> 01:19:05,439
respect for the liberties and freedoms

1826
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fought for by millions who made the

1827
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1828
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1829
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1872
01:21:13,290 --> 01:21:00,990
listening to the podcast the gold

1873
01:21:19,060 --> 01:21:16,270
we're returning with dr. Jack hunter

1874
01:21:22,480 --> 01:21:19,070
gene Steinberg and guest co-host cogsa

1875
01:21:25,870 --> 01:21:22,490
Makai and we're exploring his book of

1876
01:21:27,730 --> 01:21:25,880
essays engaging the anomalous and we

1877
01:21:29,710 --> 01:21:27,740
have of course this group of UFO

1878
01:21:31,570 --> 01:21:29,720
researchers I was mentioning very large

1879
01:21:33,360 --> 01:21:31,580
group probably most of them thinking you

1880
01:21:35,770 --> 01:21:33,370
have those are physical spaceships

1881
01:21:38,140 --> 01:21:35,780
interactions with beings or physical

1882
01:21:39,820 --> 01:21:38,150
interactions with beings and even then

1883
01:21:42,760 --> 01:21:39,830
they appear to give the same admonition

1884
01:21:45,060 --> 01:21:42,770
and like that and what bothers me here

1885
01:21:48,010 --> 01:21:45,070
and I wanted to mention this is that

1886
01:21:51,760 --> 01:21:48,020
like the largest UFO organization in

1887
01:21:54,790 --> 01:21:51,770
America MUFON when they ask people who

1888
01:21:56,740 --> 01:21:54,800
have seen UFOs what happened they treat

1889
01:21:59,260 --> 01:21:56,750
UFOs as an external event

1890
01:22:01,780 --> 01:21:59,270
oh you saw a plane you saw a car

1891
01:22:04,480 --> 01:22:01,790
speeding you saw a car in an accident

1892
01:22:07,150 --> 01:22:04,490
you saw a UFO it's the same thing they

1893
01:22:09,700 --> 01:22:07,160
see something external and they don't

1894
01:22:12,910 --> 01:22:09,710
ask about family experiences have you

1895
01:22:15,460 --> 01:22:12,920
ever seen any other kinds of phenomena

1896
01:22:17,650 --> 01:22:15,470
what about Bigfoot what about ghosts

1897
01:22:19,900 --> 01:22:17,660
what about any of this stuff and when I

1898
01:22:21,940 --> 01:22:19,910
asked their director calling them Jan

1899
01:22:23,800 --> 01:22:21,950
an why don't you ask those

1900
01:22:27,910 --> 01:22:23,810
questions and he said well we'll enter

1901
01:22:30,640 --> 01:22:27,920
the information if they volunteer it so

1902
01:22:33,700 --> 01:22:30,650
I am I get you involved in a dispute

1903
01:22:36,100 --> 01:22:33,710
over MUFON or it's research methods but

1904
01:22:39,610 --> 01:22:36,110
do you think at all that a taking that

1905
01:22:42,400 --> 01:22:39,620
approach focusing on UFOs as a separate

1906
01:22:44,650 --> 01:22:42,410
individual phenomenon is really getting

1907
01:22:46,690 --> 01:22:44,660
to the core no I don't think that is

1908
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:46,700
really against the core so I think again

1909
01:22:50,110 --> 01:22:48,050
this comes back to what we were talking

1910
01:22:52,660 --> 01:22:50,120
about before it's only when you start

1911
01:22:54,940 --> 01:22:52,670
when you actually ask people about you

1912
01:22:56,410 --> 01:22:54,950
know these more is weirder kind of

1913
01:22:58,660 --> 01:22:56,420
paranormal experiences that they will

1914
01:23:00,910 --> 01:22:58,670
talk about it and you're not going to

1915
01:23:03,310 --> 01:23:00,920
get people reporting these weird aspects

1916
01:23:05,350 --> 01:23:03,320
of the UFO phenomenon if the UFO

1917
01:23:07,180 --> 01:23:05,360
research organizations are not asking

1918
01:23:09,340 --> 01:23:07,190
about it and even if they have those

1919
01:23:10,960 --> 01:23:09,350
experiences at all those part those

1920
01:23:12,610 --> 01:23:10,970
elements of experiences are part of

1921
01:23:14,560 --> 01:23:12,620
their experience they're not going to

1922
01:23:18,040 --> 01:23:14,570
talk about it unless they get at so I

1923
01:23:19,590 --> 01:23:18,050
can't see why UFO research organizations

1924
01:23:21,240 --> 01:23:19,600
would be

1925
01:23:23,460 --> 01:23:21,250
it would think that that was a suitable

1926
01:23:26,610 --> 01:23:23,470
kind of research methodology you want to

1927
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:26,620
be exploring all the possibilities again

1928
01:23:30,420 --> 01:23:28,210
this comes this comes back to an idea

1929
01:23:32,040 --> 01:23:30,430
that I've been I've written about in in

1930
01:23:35,900 --> 01:23:32,050
this book engaging the anomalous this

1931
01:23:39,180 --> 01:23:35,910
idea of ontological flooding which is my

1932
01:23:41,190 --> 01:23:39,190
way of thinking about a method of

1933
01:23:45,090 --> 01:23:41,200
approaching paranormal research that's

1934
01:23:48,230 --> 01:23:45,100
open to multiple simultaneous theories

1935
01:23:50,340 --> 01:23:48,240
all at the same time so instead of

1936
01:23:51,930 --> 01:23:50,350
instead of hoping that we're going to be

1937
01:23:54,090 --> 01:23:51,940
able to find one really simple

1938
01:23:55,470 --> 01:23:54,100
explanation we should be open to the

1939
01:23:56,940 --> 01:23:55,480
possibility that there are lots of

1940
01:23:59,340 --> 01:23:56,950
different processes and lots of

1941
01:24:01,020 --> 01:23:59,350
different factors going on all at the

1942
01:24:02,970 --> 01:24:01,030
same time there's not going to be a

1943
01:24:05,460 --> 01:24:02,980
simple explanation actually there's

1944
01:24:07,770 --> 01:24:05,470
going to be a very complex explanation

1945
01:24:09,510 --> 01:24:07,780
at the end of the day so yeah i think i

1946
01:24:11,940 --> 01:24:09,520
think MUFON should start asking some

1947
01:24:13,560 --> 01:24:11,950
different questions well of course they

1948
01:24:16,890 --> 01:24:13,570
won't listen to us I've been talking

1949
01:24:19,980 --> 01:24:16,900
about that for ages suggests yeah they

1950
01:24:22,860 --> 01:24:19,990
do something more expansive and the

1951
01:24:25,200 --> 01:24:22,870
worst that's gonna happen when you ask

1952
01:24:27,330 --> 01:24:25,210
these questions the worse it's gonna

1953
01:24:31,110 --> 01:24:27,340
happen is there'll be no more

1954
01:24:32,880 --> 01:24:31,120
information yeah I mean people it's a

1955
01:24:34,530 --> 01:24:32,890
long time haven't they we've got you

1956
01:24:37,320 --> 01:24:34,540
know Jacques Vallee and John keel the

1957
01:24:39,690 --> 01:24:37,330
two prime examples of researchers who've

1958
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:39,700
been trying to push that more expansive

1959
01:24:44,100 --> 01:24:42,850
view of the UFO phenomenon but still for

1960
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:44,110
whatever reason and I think it's

1961
01:24:48,540 --> 01:24:46,330
something to do with wanting to appear

1962
01:24:52,140 --> 01:24:48,550
scientific and respectable and rooted in

1963
01:24:54,720 --> 01:24:52,150
the hard sciences that whole fairy realm

1964
01:24:57,330 --> 01:24:54,730
is kind of ignored which is a real shame

1965
01:25:00,750 --> 01:24:57,340
remember gene MUFON is basically

1966
01:25:05,190 --> 01:25:00,760
consists of people who are pretty much

1967
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:05,200
ETH at art and they're not overly

1968
01:25:12,060 --> 01:25:09,040
interested in overlap with other weird

1969
01:25:17,550 --> 01:25:12,070
things because they really only want to

1970
01:25:21,290 --> 01:25:17,560
highlight data and experiences that

1971
01:25:23,940 --> 01:25:21,300
confirm what they already think ie

1972
01:25:26,640 --> 01:25:23,950
structured craft controlled by

1973
01:25:30,450 --> 01:25:26,650
intelligent beings from another solar

1974
01:25:33,390 --> 01:25:30,460
system and you know anything that flies

1975
01:25:37,500 --> 01:25:33,400
in the face of that and maybe

1976
01:25:40,380 --> 01:25:37,510
that marriages Bigfoot and seances and

1977
01:25:42,930 --> 01:25:40,390
past life aggression and added on

1978
01:25:45,390 --> 01:25:42,940
hypnotism and all these things they're

1979
01:25:48,090 --> 01:25:45,400
not interested because that detracts

1980
01:25:50,189 --> 01:25:48,100
from because you got to remember that I

1981
01:25:52,200 --> 01:25:50,199
think many of these people although they

1982
01:25:54,620 --> 01:25:52,210
won't stated outright and I have

1983
01:25:57,840 --> 01:25:54,630
sympathy with them but you know way

1984
01:26:01,110 --> 01:25:57,850
ufology is their kind of religion and

1985
01:26:04,590 --> 01:26:01,120
the holy grail for them is maybe the the

1986
01:26:07,890 --> 01:26:04,600
hope that one day they may get a ride on

1987
01:26:11,399 --> 01:26:07,900
board yeah I mean a craft a spacecraft

1988
01:26:13,110 --> 01:26:11,409
or they may meet an actual alien and the

1989
01:26:15,390 --> 01:26:13,120
blinkers are on for that that's their

1990
01:26:18,050 --> 01:26:15,400
ultimate aim they know that his chances

1991
01:26:22,229 --> 01:26:18,060
are very slim but when you start

1992
01:26:24,800 --> 01:26:22,239
bringing into other weird stuff and that

1993
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:24,810
may all overlap and have the same

1994
01:26:31,410 --> 01:26:29,290
origins then it basically if they start

1995
01:26:34,080 --> 01:26:31,420
to understand they start to think well

1996
01:26:37,200 --> 01:26:34,090
maybe there aren't these space beings

1997
01:26:40,020 --> 01:26:37,210
for me to meet and there isn't gonna be

1998
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:40,030
some great end of Close Encounters of

1999
01:26:45,870 --> 01:26:42,489
the Third Kind ship landing and I make a

2000
01:26:47,880 --> 01:26:45,880
chance to go off and do this and in a

2001
01:26:50,189 --> 01:26:47,890
way it is disappointing because I'm one

2002
01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:50,199
of those people I would love for a big

2003
01:26:54,209 --> 01:26:51,850
spacecraft to come here and have the

2004
01:26:56,939 --> 01:26:54,219
chance to go away for a few years and

2005
01:26:58,919 --> 01:26:56,949
exchange a snore I would love to do that

2006
01:27:01,680 --> 01:26:58,929
you know but I don't think it's gonna

2007
01:27:05,580 --> 01:27:01,690
happen and for some a bit like religion

2008
01:27:08,010 --> 01:27:05,590
its hope they have faith but that's all

2009
01:27:10,340 --> 01:27:08,020
they've got and they just don't want to

2010
01:27:12,810 --> 01:27:10,350
dilute it with their other craziness

2011
01:27:15,149 --> 01:27:12,820
yeah it's true

2012
01:27:17,490 --> 01:27:15,159
the question I have here is how many of

2013
01:27:21,090 --> 01:27:17,500
those people really are only looking for

2014
01:27:23,600 --> 01:27:21,100
et and don't simply regard the rest of

2015
01:27:26,790 --> 01:27:23,610
it as something separate in other words

2016
01:27:28,860 --> 01:27:26,800
it's not they don't care about ghosts or

2017
01:27:33,090 --> 01:27:28,870
near-death experiences or whatever it's

2018
01:27:38,250 --> 01:27:33,100
that they're admonished or taught by

2019
01:27:42,450 --> 01:27:38,260
MUFON that UFOs are category a UFOs are

2020
01:27:45,060 --> 01:27:42,460
in Virginia and ghosts are in California

2021
01:27:46,970 --> 01:27:45,070
and Bigfoot is in Pennsylvania they're

2022
01:27:49,580 --> 01:27:46,980
three separate

2023
01:27:50,270 --> 01:27:49,590
types of phenomena never the twain shall

2024
01:27:52,070 --> 01:27:50,280
meet

2025
01:27:54,160 --> 01:27:52,080
it's not they're not interested or

2026
01:27:57,229 --> 01:27:54,170
haven't experienced it it's just that

2027
01:28:00,710 --> 01:27:57,239
they're tutored in this point of view

2028
01:28:02,570 --> 01:28:00,720
and this is what MUFON evangelizes

2029
01:28:07,130 --> 01:28:02,580
except when they're not trying to look

2030
01:28:09,350 --> 01:28:07,140
at time travelers yeah this kind of

2031
01:28:12,440 --> 01:28:09,360
tendency to ignore the connections

2032
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:12,450
between different areas is a big problem

2033
01:28:17,830 --> 01:28:15,090
it's not just in it's not just in

2034
01:28:20,120 --> 01:28:17,840
ufology it's it's everywhere I mean

2035
01:28:23,360 --> 01:28:20,130
parapsychologists for example they don't

2036
01:28:24,860 --> 01:28:23,370
like to talk about UFOs people who are

2037
01:28:26,630 --> 01:28:24,870
interested this is where where I'm

2038
01:28:28,670 --> 01:28:26,640
coming from at the moment people who are

2039
01:28:32,180 --> 01:28:28,680
interested in the paranormal are not

2040
01:28:33,890 --> 01:28:32,190
necessarily interested in ecology they

2041
01:28:35,540 --> 01:28:33,900
seem like two completely separate things

2042
01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:35,550
but actually when you start to think

2043
01:28:40,460 --> 01:28:38,610
about it the connection really really

2044
01:28:41,780 --> 01:28:40,470
strong and really pertinent and actually

2045
01:28:43,400 --> 01:28:41,790
there might be things that we can learn

2046
01:28:45,770 --> 01:28:43,410
from the research that we do in

2047
01:28:48,110 --> 01:28:45,780
parapsychology research that we do in

2048
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:48,120
you know like mediumship research and

2049
01:28:52,310 --> 01:28:49,710
things like that that might help us to

2050
01:28:54,560 --> 01:28:52,320
what to build a better relationship with

2051
01:28:57,080 --> 01:28:54,570
our without planet and our environment

2052
01:28:59,840 --> 01:28:57,090
but people don't see the connection so

2053
01:29:01,640 --> 01:28:59,850
part of my job has been you know over

2054
01:29:03,500 --> 01:29:01,650
the past few years is to show that there

2055
01:29:04,970 --> 01:29:03,510
is this connection first of all to show

2056
01:29:07,550 --> 01:29:04,980
that there's a connection between our

2057
01:29:09,530 --> 01:29:07,560
psychology and anthropology and all of

2058
01:29:11,780 --> 01:29:09,540
these other kind of paranormal themes

2059
01:29:14,180 --> 01:29:11,790
and now to show that there's also a

2060
01:29:17,360 --> 01:29:14,190
connection with this wider perspective

2061
01:29:18,979 --> 01:29:17,370
of interconnected ecological systems and

2062
01:29:20,930 --> 01:29:18,989
the way that our planet functions and

2063
01:29:22,550 --> 01:29:20,940
all these people are not looking for

2064
01:29:26,120 --> 01:29:22,560
connections and that's the problem

2065
01:29:27,020 --> 01:29:26,130
Jack where do you think I have a hard

2066
01:29:30,110 --> 01:29:27,030
time myself

2067
01:29:34,220 --> 01:29:30,120
factoring in this idea of good and evil

2068
01:29:37,940 --> 01:29:34,230
when it comes to spirits mediums your

2069
01:29:39,550 --> 01:29:37,950
UFOs there's often when we were talking

2070
01:29:42,979 --> 01:29:39,560
earlier on about some of these

2071
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:42,989
contactees the the the beings have a

2072
01:29:47,930 --> 01:29:46,170
message of impending ecological doom and

2073
01:29:50,450 --> 01:29:47,940
that you know we must get our act

2074
01:29:54,410 --> 01:29:50,460
together and da da da da this seems to

2075
01:29:57,260 --> 01:29:54,420
be the dooms sayers and also in in

2076
01:29:59,430 --> 01:29:57,270
seances or people using Ouija boards or

2077
01:30:01,790 --> 01:29:59,440
ghost boxes whatever you see

2078
01:30:05,400 --> 01:30:01,800
to get you know very very negative

2079
01:30:09,240 --> 01:30:05,410
entities that only seem to wish us harm

2080
01:30:11,280 --> 01:30:09,250
and to confuse us and befuddle us it

2081
01:30:13,860 --> 01:30:11,290
seems to be in every every kind of

2082
01:30:16,860 --> 01:30:13,870
aspect of the paranormal there's a good

2083
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:16,870
side and a bad side and where does this

2084
01:30:21,570 --> 01:30:19,570
originate because you you wouldn't you

2085
01:30:24,090 --> 01:30:21,580
weren't here obviously but last week we

2086
01:30:28,050 --> 01:30:24,100
were having a discussion Coggs

2087
01:30:39,069 --> 01:30:28,060
dr. hunter gene you're in a podcast

2088
01:30:47,560 --> 01:30:42,970
thank you for listening to GCN

2089
01:30:50,080 --> 01:30:47,570
be sure to visit GCN live.com today do

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2105
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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

2106
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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

2107
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because evil forces on our distant

2108
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planet are planning to conquer the earth

2109
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2110
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2111
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2112
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2113
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it's our Ock oids calm want revenge on

2114
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2115
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well after 10,000 years someone has

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2117
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2118
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2119
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2126
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2127
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2128
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2129
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2130
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2132
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2133
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2134
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2184
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hey this is Marie D Jones the author of

2185
01:35:02,450 --> 01:34:59,909
this book is from the future and you are

2186
01:35:12,330 --> 01:35:02,460
listening to the podcast the gold

2187
01:35:18,370 --> 01:35:15,580
so cogs was busy framing a huge

2188
01:35:20,710 --> 01:35:18,380
humongous slice a big question

2189
01:35:24,280 --> 01:35:20,720
cogs Makai pick up on your question to

2190
01:35:27,750 --> 01:35:24,290
dr. hunter yes it was I just wanted to

2191
01:35:31,240 --> 01:35:27,760
what jock stick is on this whole idea of

2192
01:35:34,420 --> 01:35:31,250
good and evil because let me bring in as

2193
01:35:37,510 --> 01:35:34,430
well Jack are you aware of a book Nick

2194
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:37,520
Redfern wrote and in in the I believe

2195
01:35:43,570 --> 01:35:39,650
the 80s and 90s there were some people

2196
01:35:46,780 --> 01:35:43,580
high up in there the US government who

2197
01:35:49,210 --> 01:35:46,790
were pretty religious but they had the

2198
01:35:51,990 --> 01:35:49,220
word they were nicknamed callings elite

2199
01:35:55,710 --> 01:35:52,000
and they were very of the mind that

2200
01:36:01,630 --> 01:35:55,720
alien beings were demonic entities and

2201
01:36:04,240 --> 01:36:01,640
just how various over history who evil

2202
01:36:08,170 --> 01:36:04,250
beings have had many guises like you

2203
01:36:11,830 --> 01:36:08,180
know vampires and spring-heeled Jack and

2204
01:36:14,350 --> 01:36:11,840
da da da and the modern UFO Age and gray

2205
01:36:18,280 --> 01:36:14,360
aliens or whatever are just the latest

2206
01:36:20,800 --> 01:36:18,290
incarnation of evil entities taking

2207
01:36:24,250 --> 01:36:20,810
physical form what you are taking this

2208
01:36:27,090 --> 01:36:24,260
whole duality good and bad side of all

2209
01:36:29,830 --> 01:36:27,100
these things yeah it's a really big

2210
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:29,840
interesting question I mean I don't

2211
01:36:33,280 --> 01:36:31,730
think I have a definitive answer for you

2212
01:36:37,720 --> 01:36:33,290
but the thing that immediately pops into

2213
01:36:40,120 --> 01:36:37,730
my mind is that we don't understand what

2214
01:36:43,090 --> 01:36:40,130
these what these other kinds of minds

2215
01:36:46,450 --> 01:36:43,100
are like we don't understand their their

2216
01:36:48,370 --> 01:36:46,460
ways of thinking we don't know what

2217
01:36:51,130 --> 01:36:48,380
their motivations are it's very

2218
01:36:53,290 --> 01:36:51,140
difficult to say whether no there they

2219
01:36:55,240 --> 01:36:53,300
are good or evil and actually you know

2220
01:36:57,490 --> 01:36:55,250
it's very difficult to say whether an

2221
01:37:00,610 --> 01:36:57,500
individual human being is good or evil

2222
01:37:02,350 --> 01:37:00,620
we all have aspects of ourselves that

2223
01:37:03,700 --> 01:37:02,360
you know there are bad aspects of

2224
01:37:06,400 --> 01:37:03,710
ourselves and good aspects of ourselves

2225
01:37:09,640 --> 01:37:06,410
I think really it comes down to this

2226
01:37:11,950 --> 01:37:09,650
idea that we need to do more trying to

2227
01:37:14,380 --> 01:37:11,960
get into the hand of the mind of the

2228
01:37:17,100 --> 01:37:14,390
paranormal or get into the mind of

2229
01:37:19,390 --> 01:37:17,110
whatever this other intelligence is and

2230
01:37:21,450 --> 01:37:19,400
think about it and I think that's where

2231
01:37:23,350 --> 01:37:21,460
anthropology comes in because

2232
01:37:25,640 --> 01:37:23,360
anthropologists have predominantly

2233
01:37:28,459 --> 01:37:25,650
worked with with human minds

2234
01:37:30,740 --> 01:37:28,469
trying to understand human minds but now

2235
01:37:32,899 --> 01:37:30,750
anthropology is moving towards focusing

2236
01:37:35,240 --> 01:37:32,909
on thinking about different kinds of

2237
01:37:37,610 --> 01:37:35,250
persons different kinds of intelligences

2238
01:37:40,340 --> 01:37:37,620
thinking about for example how trees

2239
01:37:42,530 --> 01:37:40,350
think and things like that we need more

2240
01:37:44,180 --> 01:37:42,540
research in that direction I don't think

2241
01:37:46,310 --> 01:37:44,190
we're gonna be able to I'm not gonna be

2242
01:37:48,860 --> 01:37:46,320
able to tell you now whether the UFO not

2243
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:48,870
so good or evil but what I will say is

2244
01:37:52,580 --> 01:37:50,489
that we need to do more research and

2245
01:37:55,729 --> 01:37:52,590
find out about the way that they think

2246
01:37:57,620 --> 01:37:55,739
and yeah we need to do a kind of I don't

2247
01:38:02,450 --> 01:37:57,630
know what would be like a yeah

2248
01:38:04,100 --> 01:38:02,460
extraterrestrial anthropology or yeah do

2249
01:38:06,709 --> 01:38:04,110
you mind me asking do you have any

2250
01:38:08,600 --> 01:38:06,719
religious beliefs of your own not

2251
01:38:11,570 --> 01:38:08,610
particularly religious beliefs although

2252
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:11,580
I am I usually say that I tend I try not

2253
01:38:15,979 --> 01:38:13,770
to believe in anything because I go with

2254
01:38:18,910 --> 01:38:15,989
like Robert Anton Wilson and those kinds

2255
01:38:21,919 --> 01:38:18,920
of guys who say no belief is the enemy

2256
01:38:24,500 --> 01:38:21,929
once we are rigidly stuck in a belief

2257
01:38:27,350 --> 01:38:24,510
system then we're in a belief system and

2258
01:38:29,959 --> 01:38:27,360
my whole approach has been to kind of

2259
01:38:32,570 --> 01:38:29,969
step outside of belief systems and try

2260
01:38:36,140 --> 01:38:32,580
and focus on what we can experience

2261
01:38:38,270 --> 01:38:36,150
firsthand so yeah no no I'm not

2262
01:38:40,520 --> 01:38:38,280
religious although sometimes I think of

2263
01:38:43,520 --> 01:38:40,530
myself as an animist sometimes I think

2264
01:38:46,070 --> 01:38:43,530
of myself as a pagan sometimes when I'm

2265
01:38:48,140 --> 01:38:46,080
really kind of stressed out I might

2266
01:38:50,959 --> 01:38:48,150
recite the Lord's Prayer in my mind but

2267
01:38:54,140 --> 01:38:50,969
you know that I take elements of

2268
01:38:55,700 --> 01:38:54,150
religion and and use them but I

2269
01:38:58,310 --> 01:38:55,710
differently I wouldn't consider myself

2270
01:39:03,620 --> 01:38:58,320
to be religious I'm also a religious

2271
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:03,630
education teacher trained so you know

2272
01:39:09,890 --> 01:39:07,890
I'm open to these possibility I mean no

2273
01:39:12,410 --> 01:39:09,900
offense but I always found the re

2274
01:39:14,660 --> 01:39:12,420
teachers at school to be there were a

2275
01:39:17,120 --> 01:39:14,670
quoit kind of not hippies but there were

2276
01:39:19,910 --> 01:39:17,130
quite laid-back and open-minded people I

2277
01:39:22,340 --> 01:39:19,920
have to say it's a subject that attracts

2278
01:39:24,439 --> 01:39:22,350
those kinds of people I think so it's a

2279
01:39:26,360 --> 01:39:24,449
really interesting subject and it's very

2280
01:39:29,450 --> 01:39:26,370
different I don't think they have any

2281
01:39:32,930 --> 01:39:29,460
kind of school-based religious education

2282
01:39:35,930 --> 01:39:32,940
in America but in the UK we have this

2283
01:39:38,629 --> 01:39:35,940
kind of like a non dogmatic approach to

2284
01:39:39,439 --> 01:39:38,639
to learning about religion where you

2285
01:39:41,390 --> 01:39:39,449
learn about a whole

2286
01:39:42,529 --> 01:39:41,400
range of different baits and one of the

2287
01:39:44,629 --> 01:39:42,539
things that I tried to do in my

2288
01:39:46,879 --> 01:39:44,639
religious education teaching and I've

2289
01:39:50,449 --> 01:39:46,889
written a couple of articles about it is

2290
01:39:52,939 --> 01:39:50,459
to focus in on the paranormal and

2291
01:39:55,430 --> 01:39:52,949
anomalous experiences and have enough

2292
01:39:56,989 --> 01:39:55,440
unorthodox belief because like I was

2293
01:39:59,390 --> 01:39:56,999
saying before it's a really good

2294
01:40:01,580 --> 01:39:59,400
icebreaker it gets kids talking and

2295
01:40:04,699 --> 01:40:01,590
thinking about these different kinds of

2296
01:40:07,759 --> 01:40:04,709
ideas and also again there are all of

2297
01:40:10,729 --> 01:40:07,769
these crossovers between the paranormal

2298
01:40:12,680 --> 01:40:10,739
and religion one thing that I did with

2299
01:40:15,799 --> 01:40:12,690
students once we had to do a lesson

2300
01:40:17,930 --> 01:40:15,809
about thinking about nature of God or

2301
01:40:20,479 --> 01:40:17,940
the God of classical theism when I

2302
01:40:22,729 --> 01:40:20,489
started the lesson off by getting the

2303
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:22,739
students to talk about UFOs and write

2304
01:40:26,750 --> 01:40:24,449
down their thoughts and ideas about the

2305
01:40:28,040 --> 01:40:26,760
nature of UFOs it was a really really

2306
01:40:30,049 --> 01:40:28,050
interesting activity and they've got

2307
01:40:31,939 --> 01:40:30,059
lots of different perspectives some of

2308
01:40:34,819 --> 01:40:31,949
the perspectives you know were like yeah

2309
01:40:38,180 --> 01:40:34,829
UFOs are aliens from other worlds others

2310
01:40:40,279 --> 01:40:38,190
came back with really kind of like John

2311
01:40:42,109 --> 01:40:40,289
Keough esque comments about you know

2312
01:40:44,299 --> 01:40:42,119
whether UFOs are just something else in

2313
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:44,309
disguise and things like that but it was

2314
01:40:47,569 --> 01:40:46,050
a really good springboard thing getting

2315
01:40:49,459 --> 01:40:47,579
the students to think about there's more

2316
01:40:51,229 --> 01:40:49,469
classic kind of religious education

2317
01:40:53,089 --> 01:40:51,239
subjects like you know what is the

2318
01:40:55,580 --> 01:40:53,099
nature of God what are the nature of

2319
01:40:59,899 --> 01:40:55,590
spirits and things like that let me drop

2320
01:41:02,810 --> 01:40:59,909
something in here one of my latest on my

2321
01:41:06,500 --> 01:41:02,820
wife's side of the family he believed

2322
01:41:09,680 --> 01:41:06,510
the UFOs were demonic and I read a novel

2323
01:41:12,699 --> 01:41:09,690
where they basically speaking

2324
01:41:16,939 --> 01:41:12,709
incantation or something some secret

2325
01:41:19,189 --> 01:41:16,949
incantation to get rid of the UFOs why

2326
01:41:23,270 --> 01:41:19,199
is there that sort of belief where have

2327
01:41:24,669 --> 01:41:23,280
you encountered it so why is that why is

2328
01:41:28,549 --> 01:41:24,679
that belief that we can have

2329
01:41:34,399 --> 01:41:28,559
incantations that affect UFOs or the

2330
01:41:36,080 --> 01:41:34,409
fact that UFOs are demonic well I mean

2331
01:41:39,140 --> 01:41:36,090
there's a lot of reasons why people

2332
01:41:41,509 --> 01:41:39,150
might think of UFOs do as demonic one

2333
01:41:44,390 --> 01:41:41,519
obvious reason is that people often have

2334
01:41:46,189 --> 01:41:44,400
negative experiences you know especially

2335
01:41:47,959 --> 01:41:46,199
aboard UFOs we are talking about

2336
01:41:49,879 --> 01:41:47,969
abductions and all of the kind of

2337
01:41:51,859 --> 01:41:49,889
invasive procedures that seem to take

2338
01:41:53,280 --> 01:41:51,869
place there so there's that angle a bit

2339
01:41:55,230 --> 01:41:53,290
there's an experience you're

2340
01:41:57,210 --> 01:41:55,240
and for white people might consider your

2341
01:41:59,400 --> 01:41:57,220
foes to be demonic and then there's also

2342
01:42:01,860 --> 01:41:59,410
the belief based reason why people might

2343
01:42:03,810 --> 01:42:01,870
consider University be demonic you know

2344
01:42:06,510 --> 01:42:03,820
it's simply the fact that in the

2345
01:42:08,520 --> 01:42:06,520
mainstream Abrahamic religions so

2346
01:42:13,050 --> 01:42:08,530
talking about Christianity Judaism and

2347
01:42:14,610 --> 01:42:13,060
an Islam there is this binary

2348
01:42:17,880 --> 01:42:14,620
distinction between good and evil and

2349
01:42:20,070 --> 01:42:17,890
anything that any kind of the

2350
01:42:23,190 --> 01:42:20,080
supernatural that like I was saying the

2351
01:42:27,570 --> 01:42:23,200
undomesticated supernatural UFOs and

2352
01:42:30,270 --> 01:42:27,580
ghosts and things are considered to be

2353
01:42:31,500 --> 01:42:30,280
kind of like an asthma they're things

2354
01:42:33,060 --> 01:42:31,510
that we don't want to touch we don't

2355
01:42:36,180 --> 01:42:33,070
really get involved with that as we want

2356
01:42:39,390 --> 01:42:36,190
to stay on this pure and a path and

2357
01:42:41,550 --> 01:42:39,400
again this isn't capturing the full

2358
01:42:44,040 --> 01:42:41,560
essence of what these experiences really

2359
01:42:45,660 --> 01:42:44,050
are we're either relying on our own

2360
01:42:49,530 --> 01:42:45,670
experience or we're relying on our

2361
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:49,540
belief and both of those can present us

2362
01:42:54,570 --> 01:42:51,610
with a distorted view I don't know

2363
01:42:56,340 --> 01:42:54,580
whether and that's this idea we don't

2364
01:42:58,440 --> 01:42:56,350
know whether this other intelligence is

2365
01:43:01,230 --> 01:42:58,450
good or evil or whether it's way of

2366
01:43:02,940 --> 01:43:01,240
thinking is you know beyond those kinds

2367
01:43:04,860 --> 01:43:02,950
of categories we just don't know and we

2368
01:43:07,620 --> 01:43:04,870
need to do more research we need to do

2369
01:43:12,240 --> 01:43:07,630
more conceptual research thinking about

2370
01:43:14,790 --> 01:43:12,250
those issue well I guess here you can

2371
01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:14,800
maybe even assume they're UFOs or

2372
01:43:18,750 --> 01:43:16,930
whatever you think they are and whatever

2373
01:43:21,360 --> 01:43:18,760
you expect I'm thinking of the mirror

2374
01:43:26,220 --> 01:43:21,370
for Naaman on that John he'll often

2375
01:43:30,360 --> 01:43:26,230
talks about yeah but that's it that said

2376
01:43:32,850 --> 01:43:30,370
as well there isn't this still an

2377
01:43:35,640 --> 01:43:32,860
element of um UFOs are not always what

2378
01:43:38,430 --> 01:43:35,650
we expect them to be they do possess

2379
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:38,440
elements that we expect and our beliefs

2380
01:43:42,470 --> 01:43:40,210
do play a role in that but then there's

2381
01:43:46,590 --> 01:43:42,480
also always the unexpected as well

2382
01:43:48,290 --> 01:43:46,600
though which I think goes to this idea

2383
01:43:52,640 --> 01:43:48,300
of

2384
01:43:55,939 --> 01:43:52,650
paranormal that there is something

2385
01:43:59,270 --> 01:43:55,949
external but it arises through our

2386
01:44:03,790 --> 01:43:59,280
participation and interaction with it we

2387
01:44:06,620 --> 01:44:03,800
both bring something to the experience

2388
01:44:10,430 --> 01:44:06,630
what do you think about the theories

2389
01:44:13,339 --> 01:44:10,440
about this paranormal phenomena in

2390
01:44:15,260 --> 01:44:13,349
ancient times in the Bible being related

2391
01:44:19,540 --> 01:44:15,270
to so-called ancient astronauts that

2392
01:44:22,549 --> 01:44:19,550
goes back to the physical UFOs that et

2393
01:44:25,700 --> 01:44:22,559
would tame down

2394
01:44:28,549 --> 01:44:25,710
they somehow interacted with us and as a

2395
01:44:29,930 --> 01:44:28,559
result all sorts of fascinating things

2396
01:44:31,640 --> 01:44:29,940
happen I'll have to answer that question

2397
01:44:35,030 --> 01:44:31,650
in our next segment why tell everybody

2398
01:44:36,919 --> 01:44:35,040
about the power cast plus we haven't

2399
01:44:39,189 --> 01:44:36,929
mentioned it we've been remiss in not

2400
01:44:42,919 --> 01:44:39,199
mentioning the power cast plus go to

2401
01:44:45,200 --> 01:44:42,929
plus dr. power cast com+ dr parra cast

2402
01:44:47,270 --> 01:44:45,210
Tom we offer a version of this show

2403
01:44:50,859 --> 01:44:47,280
without the network adds the after the

2404
01:44:53,720 --> 01:44:50,869
power cast podcast where you never know

2405
01:44:56,569 --> 01:44:53,730
what's going to happen next and I only

2406
01:44:59,390 --> 01:44:56,579
thurr and our guests don't we just go in

2407
01:45:01,760 --> 01:44:59,400
there and magic happens or something

2408
01:45:05,299 --> 01:45:01,770
happens and we can let you decide

2409
01:45:07,970 --> 01:45:05,309
whether that's magical mystical plus dot

2410
01:45:11,959 --> 01:45:07,980
the power cast dot-com for more

2411
01:45:15,109 --> 01:45:11,969
information with dr. hunter professor

2412
01:45:20,040 --> 01:45:15,119
monk i he's not professor and gene

2413
01:45:32,419 --> 01:45:27,430
[Music]

2414
01:45:39,890 --> 01:45:37,910
visit GP and live.com today we also have

2415
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swag you know we have all these

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2417
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buy we've got like I guess 60 or so

2418
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2419
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2420
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2421
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2422
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jackets and stuff like that for men and

2423
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women we have a para cast aluminum water

2424
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bottle all the stuff you go to store dot

2425
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2426
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what makes special is that the items are

2427
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2428
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2429
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2430
01:46:23,390 --> 01:46:20,610
in multiple sizes and colors

2431
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we even have stuff for children stuff

2432
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for women's stuff for men we have all

2433
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2434
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lot of good stuff that's the swag from

2435
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the para cast you go to steward onto the

2436
01:46:39,979 --> 01:46:35,939
para cast comm stop by and take a

2437
01:46:42,979 --> 01:46:39,989
shopping tour if you heard the warning

2438
01:46:45,589 --> 01:46:42,989
from the dead doctors don't lie guy I'm

2439
01:46:47,839 --> 01:46:45,599
talking about dr. Joel Wallach he says

2440
01:46:49,459 --> 01:46:47,849
if you have a four inch medical chart if

2441
01:46:51,310 --> 01:46:49,469
you take prescription drugs for high

2442
01:46:53,390 --> 01:46:51,320
cholesterol or high blood pressure

2443
01:46:56,120 --> 01:46:53,400
arthritis joint pains or other health

2444
01:46:59,149 --> 01:46:56,130
issues the medical profession is failing

2445
01:47:01,640 --> 01:46:59,159
you they're using you for an ATM machine

2446
01:47:04,009 --> 01:47:01,650
that's what he says he has the free

2447
01:47:06,319 --> 01:47:04,019
lecture revealing what pharmaceutical

2448
01:47:07,819 --> 01:47:06,329
companies don't want you to know there's

2449
01:47:09,620 --> 01:47:07,829
been groundbreaking research and

2450
01:47:13,279 --> 01:47:09,630
discoveries on how to effectively treat

2451
01:47:15,770 --> 01:47:13,289
or eliminate over 900 different diseases

2452
01:47:18,560 --> 01:47:15,780
naturally and it's all in this free

2453
01:47:20,600 --> 01:47:18,570
lecture called deadly recipe you want it

2454
01:47:25,750 --> 01:47:20,610
free call them toll free at eight five

2455
01:47:30,649 --> 01:47:25,760
five seven nine young you ready 855

2456
01:47:33,560 --> 01:47:30,659
seven nine young dr. Joel Wallach the

2457
01:47:35,449 --> 01:47:33,570
dead doctors don't lie guy says there's

2458
01:47:37,910 --> 01:47:35,459
no reason why we shouldn't live to be at

2459
01:47:43,710 --> 01:47:37,920
least a hundred and have a great time

2460
01:47:49,510 --> 01:47:45,810
[Applause]

2461
01:47:53,820 --> 01:47:49,520
welcome back into the para cast the gold

2462
01:48:02,470 --> 01:47:53,830
standard of paranormal radio and now

2463
01:48:05,200 --> 01:48:02,480
here's Jane Steinberg back long long

2464
01:48:07,810 --> 01:48:05,210
time ago the late Long John Neville the

2465
01:48:13,660 --> 01:48:07,820
famous talk-show host said that he's a

2466
01:48:15,220 --> 01:48:13,670
professor of ignorance we all are well

2467
01:48:16,840 --> 01:48:15,230
that's where it worked so what do you

2468
01:48:20,890 --> 01:48:16,850
think mine ancient astronauts dr. hunter

2469
01:48:23,080 --> 01:48:20,900
well that's an interesting hole of an

2470
01:48:26,170 --> 01:48:23,090
interesting area to think about I mean

2471
01:48:29,410 --> 01:48:26,180
I'm open to the possibility that we have

2472
01:48:32,050 --> 01:48:29,420
been visited in the past by ancient

2473
01:48:36,040 --> 01:48:32,060
astronauts like physical nuts-and-bolts

2474
01:48:39,640 --> 01:48:36,050
UFOs but I tend to think that the kinds

2475
01:48:43,540 --> 01:48:39,650
of experiences that people more often

2476
01:48:45,340 --> 01:48:43,550
than not have is again it's more subtle

2477
01:48:48,220 --> 01:48:45,350
than that so when we think about maybe

2478
01:48:51,220 --> 01:48:48,230
ancient encounters with ancient aliens

2479
01:48:53,020 --> 01:48:51,230
or stuff in in the Bible or other kinds

2480
01:48:56,710 --> 01:48:53,030
of ancient texts that we're really

2481
01:49:00,010 --> 01:48:56,720
talking about experiences in

2482
01:49:01,600 --> 01:49:00,020
consciousness if that makes sense that

2483
01:49:05,260 --> 01:49:01,610
we're not necessarily talking about

2484
01:49:06,850 --> 01:49:05,270
physical UFOs coming down that the the

2485
01:49:10,120 --> 01:49:06,860
kind of accounts that we find in the

2486
01:49:12,760 --> 01:49:10,130
Bible say in a Ezekiel for example with

2487
01:49:14,350 --> 01:49:12,770
his famous experience that this is a an

2488
01:49:15,430 --> 01:49:14,360
experience that's been brought about

2489
01:49:17,620 --> 01:49:15,440
through an altered state of

2490
01:49:19,540 --> 01:49:17,630
consciousness of some sort not to say

2491
01:49:21,400 --> 01:49:19,550
that the angels weren't actually there

2492
01:49:23,320 --> 01:49:21,410
just that they would perhaps not

2493
01:49:26,650 --> 01:49:23,330
physically their own a sense of like a

2494
01:49:28,360 --> 01:49:26,660
nuts-and-bolts UFO I definitely think

2495
01:49:31,390 --> 01:49:28,370
there's there's a real possibility that

2496
01:49:35,080 --> 01:49:31,400
we have been interacted with you know

2497
01:49:37,480 --> 01:49:35,090
throughout our our history interacted

2498
01:49:40,630 --> 01:49:37,490
with by these other kinds of

2499
01:49:44,250 --> 01:49:40,640
intelligences definitely yeah I love how

2500
01:49:47,830 --> 01:49:44,260
Terence Mckenna were actually sated

2501
01:49:50,470 --> 01:49:47,840
hallucinogenics as possibly an agent of

2502
01:49:53,320 --> 01:49:50,480
evolution and agent of change because I

2503
01:49:57,360 --> 01:49:53,330
can fully believe that

2504
01:50:00,520 --> 01:49:57,370
and earlier man that maybe accidentally

2505
01:50:03,070 --> 01:50:00,530
you know ingested psilocybin and stuff

2506
01:50:06,520 --> 01:50:03,080
and having done that myself a number of

2507
01:50:09,010 --> 01:50:06,530
times I know that it just forces your

2508
01:50:10,990 --> 01:50:09,020
brain to make strange out to the box

2509
01:50:15,580 --> 01:50:11,000
connections that you never normally

2510
01:50:17,740 --> 01:50:15,590
would and it must have made people for

2511
01:50:20,590 --> 01:50:17,750
instance maybe it was the first time

2512
01:50:23,530 --> 01:50:20,600
somebody ever thought hmm if I put some

2513
01:50:26,740 --> 01:50:23,540
gut and string it across the end of this

2514
01:50:28,990 --> 01:50:26,750
very bendy strong wood could I use it to

2515
01:50:31,800 --> 01:50:29,000
propel a projectile you know just just

2516
01:50:35,170 --> 01:50:31,810
anything like uh whether it was

2517
01:50:39,270 --> 01:50:35,180
deliberate or not initially I truly

2518
01:50:42,520 --> 01:50:39,280
truly believe that psychedelic plants

2519
01:50:44,560 --> 01:50:42,530
whether there's a God who put them on

2520
01:50:46,210 --> 01:50:44,570
earth for that purpose or it just so

2521
01:50:48,970 --> 01:50:46,220
happened that we discovered up I

2522
01:50:51,940 --> 01:50:48,980
definitely think people have had real

2523
01:50:53,980 --> 01:50:51,950
out-of-the-box thinking experiences due

2524
01:50:57,790 --> 01:50:53,990
to that and it may very well have

2525
01:51:00,610 --> 01:50:57,800
accelerated our evolution intellectually

2526
01:51:03,640 --> 01:51:00,620
to you know to a degree I was gonna ask

2527
01:51:07,000 --> 01:51:03,650
you Jack about to tell us more about the

2528
01:51:10,120 --> 01:51:07,010
the Anthropology of neuroscience of

2529
01:51:13,660 --> 01:51:10,130
possession we're talking spirit

2530
01:51:17,320 --> 01:51:13,670
possession you know ie this person is

2531
01:51:21,130 --> 01:51:17,330
supposedly possessed by an entity yeah

2532
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:21,140
so I make an important distinction we

2533
01:51:25,210 --> 01:51:23,570
talk about spirit possession and under

2534
01:51:27,040 --> 01:51:25,220
that label we include all sorts of

2535
01:51:28,420 --> 01:51:27,050
things we include you know the kind of

2536
01:51:30,070 --> 01:51:28,430
negative spirit possession that we

2537
01:51:31,750 --> 01:51:30,080
usually think of like you know like in

2538
01:51:34,240 --> 01:51:31,760
The Exorcist and stuff at that but we

2539
01:51:37,270 --> 01:51:34,250
also include deliberate spirit

2540
01:51:39,610 --> 01:51:37,280
possession so spirit mediumship so it's

2541
01:51:41,830 --> 01:51:39,620
the terminology anthropology is a little

2542
01:51:43,480 --> 01:51:41,840
bit vaguer than the terminology in kind

2543
01:51:45,340 --> 01:51:43,490
of like parapsychology and in the

2544
01:51:47,410 --> 01:51:45,350
paranormal community so when we're

2545
01:51:49,390 --> 01:51:47,420
talking about spirit possession I'm not

2546
01:51:53,410 --> 01:51:49,400
necessarily talking about you know evil

2547
01:51:56,970 --> 01:51:53,420
spirits oh yeah going back to the kind

2548
01:52:00,220 --> 01:51:56,980
of neuroscience the been there's been

2549
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:00,230
relatively few neuro physiological

2550
01:52:06,060 --> 01:52:04,370
studies of spirit possession and fMRI or

2551
01:52:10,110 --> 01:52:06,070
something yeah

2552
01:52:12,300 --> 01:52:10,120
there's been fMRI scans a few EEG

2553
01:52:13,950 --> 01:52:12,310
studies and things like that but if you

2554
01:52:15,300 --> 01:52:13,960
think about it like going back 20 30

2555
01:52:17,600 --> 01:52:15,310
years it would have been virtually

2556
01:52:21,380 --> 01:52:17,610
impossible to do those kinds of studies

2557
01:52:23,370 --> 01:52:21,390
with people who out in the field

2558
01:52:24,840 --> 01:52:23,380
practicing their mediumship you know in

2559
01:52:27,210 --> 01:52:24,850
in their homes and things because the

2560
01:52:28,590 --> 01:52:27,220
equipment was too heavy and bulky so

2561
01:52:31,080 --> 01:52:28,600
there was only limited studies in the

2562
01:52:34,430 --> 01:52:31,090
1980s and 90s of stuff and only more

2563
01:52:36,600 --> 01:52:34,440
recently like coming into the 2000s

2564
01:52:39,060 --> 01:52:36,610
neuroscientists have been able to

2565
01:52:40,920 --> 01:52:39,070
develop much smaller technology so

2566
01:52:43,220 --> 01:52:40,930
they've been able to actually do

2567
01:52:45,450 --> 01:52:43,230
research with kind of like traditional

2568
01:52:47,910 --> 01:52:45,460
mediumistic practices in places like

2569
01:52:51,750 --> 01:52:47,920
Bali and things like that where they can

2570
01:52:53,370 --> 01:52:51,760
put the EEG onto the head of the of the

2571
01:52:55,320 --> 01:52:53,380
medium while they go into their trance

2572
01:52:57,330 --> 01:52:55,330
States and while they're possessed and

2573
01:52:59,160 --> 01:52:57,340
then record the data and the most

2574
01:53:01,260 --> 01:52:59,170
interesting thing that comes out of all

2575
01:53:03,840 --> 01:53:01,270
of this research is the suggestion that

2576
01:53:07,020 --> 01:53:03,850
mediumship represents kind of like a

2577
01:53:09,120 --> 01:53:07,030
distinctive psycho physiological state

2578
01:53:11,310 --> 01:53:09,130
so when someone goes into their

2579
01:53:13,710 --> 01:53:11,320
mediumistic trance they're going into a

2580
01:53:16,530 --> 01:53:13,720
very particular kind of trance State

2581
01:53:18,680 --> 01:53:16,540
that's different from say the kind of

2582
01:53:21,030 --> 01:53:18,690
state that someone who is suffering from

2583
01:53:22,530 --> 01:53:21,040
dissociative identity disorder or

2584
01:53:25,800 --> 01:53:22,540
multiple personality disorder or

2585
01:53:28,410 --> 01:53:25,810
schizophrenia goes into something that

2586
01:53:31,040 --> 01:53:28,420
would be difficult to fake it is

2587
01:53:33,660 --> 01:53:31,050
something be very difficult to fake I

2588
01:53:36,180 --> 01:53:33,670
mean we can't control over our

2589
01:53:37,590 --> 01:53:36,190
neurophysiology to some extent but you

2590
01:53:40,440 --> 01:53:37,600
know generally visa and these neuro

2591
01:53:43,650 --> 01:53:40,450
physiological changes are unconscious so

2592
01:53:45,150 --> 01:53:43,660
one example would be how I can't

2593
01:53:48,300 --> 01:53:45,160
remember the specific study but they

2594
01:53:51,630 --> 01:53:48,310
would get psychic refers or kind of like

2595
01:53:55,140 --> 01:53:51,640
automatic writers to on the one hand do

2596
01:53:57,270 --> 01:53:55,150
their genuine automatic writing to go

2597
01:54:00,150 --> 01:53:57,280
into their trance as they usually do and

2598
01:54:02,070 --> 01:54:00,160
then in another session they would get

2599
01:54:04,320 --> 01:54:02,080
them to imagine going into that trance

2600
01:54:05,250 --> 01:54:04,330
and then you know in another session

2601
01:54:08,160 --> 01:54:05,260
they would get them to imagine doing

2602
01:54:09,570 --> 01:54:08,170
something completely different and there

2603
01:54:12,330 --> 01:54:09,580
are neuro distinctive neuro

2604
01:54:14,190 --> 01:54:12,340
physiological differences in terms of

2605
01:54:16,860 --> 01:54:14,200
the activity in the brain electrical

2606
01:54:18,480 --> 01:54:16,870
activity and blood flow and all of these

2607
01:54:19,590 --> 01:54:18,490
kinds of things associated with

2608
01:54:21,630 --> 01:54:19,600
imagining the

2609
01:54:23,850 --> 01:54:21,640
going into a trance and actually going

2610
01:54:25,980 --> 01:54:23,860
into a trance so it's not like they're

2611
01:54:27,570 --> 01:54:25,990
pretending when they actually go in when

2612
01:54:30,780 --> 01:54:27,580
they go into their trance States there

2613
01:54:33,900 --> 01:54:30,790
are actual euro physiological changes

2614
01:54:35,370 --> 01:54:33,910
taking place which you wouldn't you know

2615
01:54:37,380 --> 01:54:35,380
you can't fake and if they were

2616
01:54:39,630 --> 01:54:37,390
pretending to then it would show up as

2617
01:54:42,260 --> 01:54:39,640
though they were pretending is who I

2618
01:54:47,310 --> 01:54:42,270
mean mm-hmm

2619
01:54:49,560 --> 01:54:47,320
yeah so yeah it seems as though based on

2620
01:54:51,780 --> 01:54:49,570
the few neurophysiological studies that

2621
01:54:54,570 --> 01:54:51,790
actually have been conducted the the

2622
01:54:57,900 --> 01:54:54,580
mediumship is a real thing or at least

2623
01:55:02,040 --> 01:54:57,910
it's it's a real experience associated

2624
01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:02,050
with real neuro physiological changes it

2625
01:55:05,700 --> 01:55:04,210
doesn't say whether mediumship itself is

2626
01:55:07,710 --> 01:55:05,710
real or whether there are actually

2627
01:55:10,260 --> 01:55:07,720
spirits involved or any of that kind of

2628
01:55:12,390 --> 01:55:10,270
thing but it does suggest that when when

2629
01:55:14,610 --> 01:55:12,400
mediums go into their trances we can be

2630
01:55:17,190 --> 01:55:14,620
fairly certain that they're actually you

2631
01:55:19,770 --> 01:55:17,200
know that the experiences they report

2632
01:55:21,630 --> 01:55:19,780
and the things they claim or not they're

2633
01:55:25,110 --> 01:55:21,640
not lying to us they have no reason to

2634
01:55:28,710 --> 01:55:25,120
pretend they are actually having some

2635
01:55:31,410 --> 01:55:28,720
kind of a a genuine experience so

2636
01:55:33,420 --> 01:55:31,420
therefore if I go to the medium and she

2637
01:55:35,850 --> 01:55:33,430
says I'm gonna contact your Uncle Louie

2638
01:55:38,520 --> 01:55:35,860
and I did have an Uncle Louie it was my

2639
01:55:42,420 --> 01:55:38,530
father's brother and they come back and

2640
01:55:43,550 --> 01:55:42,430
now she's getting contacts hearing words

2641
01:55:48,540 --> 01:55:43,560
from Uncle Louie

2642
01:55:53,100 --> 01:55:48,550
what is she hearing that's that's a good

2643
01:55:56,400 --> 01:55:53,110
question as well I mean I can't give you

2644
01:55:58,980 --> 01:55:56,410
could use the evidence from the voice

2645
01:56:01,200 --> 01:55:58,990
that she's hearing to kind of build up a

2646
01:56:03,570 --> 01:56:01,210
clearer idea like if they're able to

2647
01:56:05,160 --> 01:56:03,580
give um if they're able to give

2648
01:56:07,650 --> 01:56:05,170
information that you can then go and

2649
01:56:10,050 --> 01:56:07,660
independently verify then you might be

2650
01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:10,060
able to demonstrate that that is the

2651
01:56:16,110 --> 01:56:12,010
person that they're claiming that it is

2652
01:56:18,120 --> 01:56:16,120
your Uncle Louie but it's very very

2653
01:56:20,700 --> 01:56:18,130
tricky and especially when we start to

2654
01:56:23,910 --> 01:56:20,710
bring in the possibility of sigh and

2655
01:56:24,580 --> 01:56:23,920
telepathy and psychokinesis and remote

2656
01:56:27,160 --> 01:56:24,590
viewing

2657
01:56:29,530 --> 01:56:27,170
it starts to become even more difficult

2658
01:56:32,020 --> 01:56:29,540
to determine whether the communication

2659
01:56:34,540 --> 01:56:32,030
is actually from a spirit because if we

2660
01:56:37,359 --> 01:56:34,550
accept the possibility that the sigh is

2661
01:56:39,129 --> 01:56:37,369
real then it's entirely possible that

2662
01:56:41,200 --> 01:56:39,139
the medium is getting their accurate

2663
01:56:43,600 --> 01:56:41,210
information from the mind of the person

2664
01:56:44,830 --> 01:56:43,610
that they are that doing a reading for

2665
01:56:46,959 --> 01:56:44,840
that they might be getting the

2666
01:56:49,990 --> 01:56:46,969
information from yeah through remote

2667
01:56:52,060 --> 01:56:50,000
viewing from some kind of berm document

2668
01:56:56,350 --> 01:56:52,070
stored somewhere or something so it

2669
01:56:58,359 --> 01:56:56,360
becomes a really very tricky area and at

2670
01:57:00,520 --> 01:56:58,369
the end of the day you have to kind of

2671
01:57:02,260 --> 01:57:00,530
go with your gut instinct I guess and if

2672
01:57:05,109 --> 01:57:02,270
you think that the medium is giving you

2673
01:57:07,000 --> 01:57:05,119
accurate information that relates to the

2674
01:57:09,129 --> 01:57:07,010
person that they're supposed to be

2675
01:57:11,290 --> 01:57:09,139
communicating with we're going to

2676
01:57:13,510 --> 01:57:11,300
continue with that discussion gog has a

2677
01:57:16,270 --> 01:57:13,520
question that we'll all want to hear

2678
01:57:19,589 --> 01:57:16,280
about we're talking with dr. Jack hunter

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the book is engaging the anomalous

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[Music]

2682
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2687
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2688
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2689
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2690
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2691
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2770
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comment or question about the

2771
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sent it to news at the para caste calm

2772
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that's news at the para caste calm and

2773
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don't forget to visit our famous para

2774
02:02:01,890 --> 02:01:57,400
caste community forums at forum dot the

2775
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para cast calm dr. hunter I wanted to

2776
02:02:07,260 --> 02:02:04,900
pursue this more about the mediums and

2777
02:02:09,690 --> 02:02:07,270
who are what they're contacting so when

2778
02:02:12,060 --> 02:02:09,700
they think they contacted my Uncle Louie

2779
02:02:13,890 --> 02:02:12,070
who did they contact or is there someone

2780
02:02:16,110 --> 02:02:13,900
out there who pretends to be Uncle Louie

2781
02:02:20,790 --> 02:02:16,120
well that's another good question

2782
02:02:22,620 --> 02:02:20,800
it could be another entity if we look at

2783
02:02:24,180 --> 02:02:22,630
the kind of like a magical tradition

2784
02:02:25,560 --> 02:02:24,190
we're always told that we shouldn't

2785
02:02:27,780 --> 02:02:25,570
really trust the spirits

2786
02:02:31,080 --> 02:02:27,790
I guess this comes back to the George

2787
02:02:33,210 --> 02:02:31,090
Hansen kind of trickster angle as well

2788
02:02:35,670 --> 02:02:33,220
we don't know that these spirits are

2789
02:02:37,200 --> 02:02:35,680
necessarily who they claim to be as I

2790
02:02:39,690 --> 02:02:37,210
was saying before there is information

2791
02:02:41,250 --> 02:02:39,700
that we can get they can kind of lead us

2792
02:02:44,160 --> 02:02:41,260
down particular roof so we can identify

2793
02:02:46,380 --> 02:02:44,170
particular spirits but at the same time

2794
02:02:48,150 --> 02:02:46,390
there's also the possibility that that

2795
02:02:51,420 --> 02:02:48,160
the medium is using some kind of innate

2796
02:02:53,520 --> 02:02:51,430
SCI capacity and there are actually no

2797
02:02:55,260 --> 02:02:53,530
spirits involved at all and that the

2798
02:02:56,850 --> 02:02:55,270
information that they're brief or is

2799
02:02:58,650 --> 02:02:56,860
either coming from the mind of the

2800
02:03:01,260 --> 02:02:58,660
person who's being read or from other

2801
02:03:03,960 --> 02:03:01,270
other sources so it is very difficult to

2802
02:03:06,600 --> 02:03:03,970
tell and I wouldn't like to state with

2803
02:03:08,700 --> 02:03:06,610
100% certainty that they were talking to

2804
02:03:11,520 --> 02:03:08,710
your Uncle Louie but I would certainly

2805
02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:11,530
be a possibility everywhere it's

2806
02:03:16,380 --> 02:03:12,970
possible there that instead of

2807
02:03:20,520 --> 02:03:16,390
contacting Uncle Louie or Uncle John or

2808
02:03:23,580 --> 02:03:20,530
John Lennon or John keel they're reading

2809
02:03:24,810 --> 02:03:23,590
your mind and getting a sense not

2810
02:03:26,070 --> 02:03:24,820
knowing they're reading your mind of

2811
02:03:29,610 --> 02:03:26,080
course we're getting a sense of the

2812
02:03:32,850 --> 02:03:29,620
individual and thus they're capable then

2813
02:03:34,860 --> 02:03:32,860
of coming up with information that may

2814
02:03:37,080 --> 02:03:34,870
be close to the mark or are they doing

2815
02:03:38,850 --> 02:03:37,090
cold readings or a combination well

2816
02:03:40,980 --> 02:03:38,860
again it's more likely to be a

2817
02:03:43,380 --> 02:03:40,990
combination of all of these factors I

2818
02:03:45,750 --> 02:03:43,390
don't think that simple answers get us

2819
02:03:47,310 --> 02:03:45,760
anywhere it's going to be a combination

2820
02:03:49,590 --> 02:03:47,320
of different factors and if SCI is

2821
02:03:51,600 --> 02:03:49,600
involved for example then there's likely

2822
02:03:54,330 --> 02:03:51,610
to be some kind of SCI involved even if

2823
02:03:56,940 --> 02:03:54,340
we're talking about actual discarnates

2824
02:03:58,229 --> 02:03:56,950
spirits because we mean how does a

2825
02:04:00,270 --> 02:03:58,239
discarnates spirit

2826
02:04:01,229 --> 02:04:00,280
indicate where the medium is gonna be so

2827
02:04:03,540 --> 02:04:01,239
there's gotta be some kind of a

2828
02:04:06,419 --> 02:04:03,550
telepathic psych patient going on there

2829
02:04:09,200 --> 02:04:06,429
now over the years in your exploration

2830
02:04:11,819 --> 02:04:09,210
of the strange and unknown have you met

2831
02:04:13,319 --> 02:04:11,829
mediums that you feel have some kind of

2832
02:04:16,439 --> 02:04:13,329
innate abilities that can be

2833
02:04:18,810 --> 02:04:16,449
demonstrated repeatedly yeah the mediums

2834
02:04:21,180 --> 02:04:18,820
that I I worked with there's an

2835
02:04:23,250 --> 02:04:21,190
interesting point actually though the

2836
02:04:26,009 --> 02:04:23,260
groups that I worked with was a small

2837
02:04:29,879 --> 02:04:26,019
private home circle called the Bristol

2838
02:04:32,580 --> 02:04:29,889
spirit lodge and they weren't you know

2839
02:04:34,410 --> 02:04:32,590
like when we think of mediums we might

2840
02:04:36,089 --> 02:04:34,420
think of people who go up on the stage

2841
02:04:37,560 --> 02:04:36,099
for example and they try and pick out

2842
02:04:40,259 --> 02:04:37,570
someone in the audience and then they

2843
02:04:42,540 --> 02:04:40,269
say no I'm getting a J coming through it

2844
02:04:44,959 --> 02:04:42,550
wasn't like that kind of mediumship they

2845
02:04:47,790 --> 02:04:44,969
were doing trance mediumship and

2846
02:04:48,810 --> 02:04:47,800
physical mediumship so they would go

2847
02:04:50,370 --> 02:04:48,820
into their altered states of

2848
02:04:52,470 --> 02:04:50,380
consciousness and then spirits would

2849
02:04:55,500 --> 02:04:52,480
communicate through their their bodies

2850
02:04:57,479 --> 02:04:55,510
and talk with the sitters so it wasn't

2851
02:04:59,850 --> 02:04:57,489
my goal and it wasn't their goal either

2852
02:05:01,919 --> 02:04:59,860
to kind of provide definitive evidence

2853
02:05:04,439 --> 02:05:01,929
that these spirits were who they claimed

2854
02:05:06,839 --> 02:05:04,449
to be what was more important was the

2855
02:05:11,220 --> 02:05:06,849
kind of the relationship that was built

2856
02:05:12,450 --> 02:05:11,230
up between the spirits and the circle so

2857
02:05:14,640 --> 02:05:12,460
they weren't they weren't trying to

2858
02:05:17,009 --> 02:05:14,650
prove that for example this spirit

2859
02:05:19,259 --> 02:05:17,019
called charlie was actually the spirit

2860
02:05:20,850 --> 02:05:19,269
of the deceased Chinese monk they were

2861
02:05:22,709 --> 02:05:20,860
more interested in building up the

2862
02:05:25,799 --> 02:05:22,719
dialogue and then eventually working

2863
02:05:27,299 --> 02:05:25,809
towards the manifestation of a physical

2864
02:05:29,129 --> 02:05:27,309
phenomena that they were really

2865
02:05:32,189 --> 02:05:29,139
interested in trying to produce

2866
02:05:34,290 --> 02:05:32,199
ectoplasm for example and going back to

2867
02:05:37,439 --> 02:05:34,300
your question I think that they were

2868
02:05:39,989 --> 02:05:37,449
genuinely getting into this state and

2869
02:05:43,319 --> 02:05:39,999
that they weren't necessarily trying to

2870
02:05:44,759 --> 02:05:43,329
pull the wool over anyone's eyes that

2871
02:05:47,520 --> 02:05:44,769
they were being honest in what they were

2872
02:05:50,700 --> 02:05:47,530
telling us they were being honest in in

2873
02:05:53,310 --> 02:05:50,710
their experience yeah that they did have

2874
02:05:55,680 --> 02:05:53,320
in affirm a dissociative mediumistic

2875
02:05:57,569 --> 02:05:55,690
ability some kind it seemed to be innate

2876
02:06:01,109 --> 02:05:57,579
for them as well I mean they did learn

2877
02:06:03,479 --> 02:06:01,119
to develop the this disability but when

2878
02:06:04,680 --> 02:06:03,489
I was talking to them I was interviewing

2879
02:06:06,180 --> 02:06:04,690
them and trying to find out more about

2880
02:06:08,819 --> 02:06:06,190
their backgrounds it seemed as though

2881
02:06:11,629 --> 02:06:08,829
they'd had these experiences throughout

2882
02:06:13,790 --> 02:06:11,639
their lives and that it was through the

2883
02:06:15,259 --> 02:06:13,800
joining this mediumship development

2884
02:06:17,600 --> 02:06:15,269
circle that they were actually able to

2885
02:06:19,669 --> 02:06:17,610
kind of take control over the

2886
02:06:21,979 --> 02:06:19,679
experiences and then put them to use

2887
02:06:23,899 --> 02:06:21,989
I remember one really good example of

2888
02:06:25,939 --> 02:06:23,909
one of the mediums that I talked to a

2889
02:06:28,879 --> 02:06:25,949
lodge she used to have this experience

2890
02:06:30,979 --> 02:06:28,889
when she was going into all the houses

2891
02:06:33,739 --> 02:06:30,989
or you know different kinds of places

2892
02:06:36,199 --> 02:06:33,749
like that where she would feel this very

2893
02:06:38,719 --> 02:06:36,209
unpleasant feeling of something moving

2894
02:06:41,629 --> 02:06:38,729
through her body you know used to freak

2895
02:06:43,189 --> 02:06:41,639
her out and make it really scared and it

2896
02:06:45,770 --> 02:06:43,199
wasn't until someone suggested or maybe

2897
02:06:47,750 --> 02:06:45,780
you're a medium that she went and found

2898
02:06:49,609 --> 02:06:47,760
this this group and found out that these

2899
02:06:52,489 --> 02:06:49,619
kinds of experiences are really common

2900
02:06:54,739 --> 02:06:52,499
amongst developing mediums and

2901
02:06:57,290 --> 02:06:54,749
eventually she learned that this feeling

2902
02:06:59,659 --> 02:06:57,300
was just the initial onset stages of

2903
02:07:01,699 --> 02:06:59,669
mediumistic trance she learned to

2904
02:07:04,489 --> 02:07:01,709
control it and to develop it and then

2905
02:07:07,370 --> 02:07:04,499
eventually she became a fully fledged

2906
02:07:09,620 --> 02:07:07,380
trance medium so there is an innate

2907
02:07:11,870 --> 02:07:09,630
ability in people but it can also be

2908
02:07:13,100 --> 02:07:11,880
develop that's another point that we

2909
02:07:14,569 --> 02:07:13,110
should probably bring up about this

2910
02:07:16,759 --> 02:07:14,579
mediumship group is that they were

2911
02:07:19,850 --> 02:07:16,769
pretty dedicated to what they were doing

2912
02:07:22,669 --> 02:07:19,860
they were meeting once twice maybe three

2913
02:07:23,919 --> 02:07:22,679
times a week doing seances you know and

2914
02:07:26,659 --> 02:07:23,929
they're still doing it now I'm

2915
02:07:28,580 --> 02:07:26,669
developing their mediumship when there's

2916
02:07:31,370 --> 02:07:28,590
no money involved they're not interested

2917
02:07:33,709 --> 02:07:31,380
in improving their abilities to anyone

2918
02:07:35,509 --> 02:07:33,719
other than you know to themselves and to

2919
02:07:37,250 --> 02:07:35,519
the people who were a part of the group

2920
02:07:38,989 --> 02:07:37,260
so it was a really it's a really

2921
02:07:42,259 --> 02:07:38,999
interesting experience that was really

2922
02:07:44,779 --> 02:07:42,269
lucky to find this group to work with do

2923
02:07:48,319 --> 02:07:44,789
you find it or any evidence that some of

2924
02:07:50,270 --> 02:07:48,329
these alleged mediums are actually just

2925
02:07:52,669 --> 02:07:50,280
putting the wool over our eyes and doing

2926
02:07:55,520 --> 02:07:52,679
the cold reading scene certainly there

2927
02:07:56,779 --> 02:07:55,530
are people who who do that when we start

2928
02:07:59,389 --> 02:07:56,789
to talk about when we start to think

2929
02:08:01,009 --> 02:07:59,399
about physical mediumship producing

2930
02:08:04,549 --> 02:08:01,019
ectoplasm and things moving around the

2931
02:08:07,159 --> 02:08:04,559
room and stuff the tendency or the kind

2932
02:08:10,399 --> 02:08:07,169
of the desire to to trick people seems

2933
02:08:11,929 --> 02:08:10,409
to become a lot stronger but I actually

2934
02:08:13,850 --> 02:08:11,939
have a chapter in this engaging the

2935
02:08:16,520 --> 02:08:13,860
anomalous book about the issue of fraud

2936
02:08:17,569 --> 02:08:16,530
and performance in mediumship and I

2937
02:08:21,049 --> 02:08:17,579
think there's a real strong connection

2938
02:08:24,290 --> 02:08:21,059
between you know kind of fake phenomena

2939
02:08:25,099 --> 02:08:24,300
and genuine phenomena and it has a lot

2940
02:08:27,709 --> 02:08:25,109
to do with

2941
02:08:30,169 --> 02:08:27,719
they're kind of like our our belief in

2942
02:08:32,149 --> 02:08:30,179
the moment so there was a really

2943
02:08:34,009 --> 02:08:32,159
interesting piece of research by a

2944
02:08:37,040 --> 02:08:34,019
parapsychologist called Kenneth

2945
02:08:38,899 --> 02:08:37,050
bachelder and he wanted to kind of do

2946
02:08:41,919 --> 02:08:38,909
like laboratory experiments on kind of

2947
02:08:44,649 --> 02:08:41,929
traditional spiritualist table tipping

2948
02:08:48,319 --> 02:08:44,659
activities and he found that if he

2949
02:08:51,199 --> 02:08:48,329
introduced a fake phenomenon so if he

2950
02:08:54,199 --> 02:08:51,209
like nudge the table early on in the

2951
02:08:56,839 --> 02:08:54,209
experiment that would lead people into a

2952
02:08:58,879 --> 02:08:56,849
kind of a more open accepting kind of

2953
02:09:01,459 --> 02:08:58,889
frame it would boost their instant

2954
02:09:03,560 --> 02:09:01,469
belief in the possibility that spirits

2955
02:09:06,079 --> 02:09:03,570
could move tables and then genuine

2956
02:09:07,359 --> 02:09:06,089
phenomena would happen afterwards there

2957
02:09:10,899 --> 02:09:07,369
seems to be a connection between

2958
02:09:13,219 --> 02:09:10,909
performance the possibility of fraud

2959
02:09:14,989 --> 02:09:13,229
then the manifestation of genuine

2960
02:09:16,339 --> 02:09:14,999
phenomena which is a there's a really

2961
02:09:17,479 --> 02:09:16,349
interesting one and I think you know a

2962
02:09:18,770 --> 02:09:17,489
lot of people have a tendency to throw

2963
02:09:21,049 --> 02:09:18,780
the baby out with the bathwater when

2964
02:09:23,389 --> 02:09:21,059
they hear that a medium has been found

2965
02:09:25,969 --> 02:09:23,399
you know doing some kind of fraudulent

2966
02:09:28,579 --> 02:09:25,979
activity that doesn't necessarily negate

2967
02:09:29,959 --> 02:09:28,589
all of their phenomena there's a really

2968
02:09:32,689 --> 02:09:29,969
good example from the history of

2969
02:09:34,729 --> 02:09:32,699
psychical research of the medium you say

2970
02:09:36,169 --> 02:09:34,739
Pierre Palladino was one of the most

2971
02:09:38,119 --> 02:09:36,179
kind of prominent mediums of the

2972
02:09:39,829 --> 02:09:38,129
Victorian era and even though she was

2973
02:09:43,129 --> 02:09:39,839
caught on multiple occasions like

2974
02:09:46,040 --> 02:09:43,139
red-handed doing his dodgy act and you

2975
02:09:49,099 --> 02:09:46,050
know moving things herself at the same

2976
02:09:51,949 --> 02:09:49,109
time many many many highly respected

2977
02:09:54,799 --> 02:09:51,959
researchers scientists and all sorts of

2978
02:09:56,659 --> 02:09:54,809
people nevertheless claimed that during

2979
02:09:58,939 --> 02:09:56,669
her seances they had witnessed things

2980
02:10:00,379 --> 02:09:58,949
that they couldn't explain so especially

2981
02:10:01,639 --> 02:10:00,389
when we're talking about physical

2982
02:10:04,959 --> 02:10:01,649
mediumship there seems to be a

2983
02:10:08,719 --> 02:10:04,969
connection between fraud trickery and

2984
02:10:10,129 --> 02:10:08,729
also genuine paranormal manifestations I

2985
02:10:12,829 --> 02:10:10,139
think that's something that needs a

2986
02:10:15,049 --> 02:10:12,839
little bit a bit more research as well

2987
02:10:18,469 --> 02:10:15,059
we're gonna continue we got more to come

2988
02:10:27,910 --> 02:10:18,479
or if Jean gags and Jack you're in the

2989
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thank you for listening to GCS visit GC

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calm for USA Radio News I'm Wendy King

3014
02:11:51,340 --> 02:11:49,100
South Korean president moon jae-in held

3015
02:11:54,010 --> 02:11:51,350
a surprise second meeting with North

3016
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Korean leader Kim jong-un in an apparent

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move to convince him to hold his

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02:12:00,550 --> 02:11:58,310
scheduled summit with President Trump in

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June the meeting between moon and Kim

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which was held in the DMZ attempted to

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revamp the on-again-off-again summit

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between Trump and Kim after canceling

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02:12:12,520 --> 02:12:09,860
the summit on Thursday President Trump

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hinted on Friday it could take place on

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June 12th in Singapore as planned

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behind-the-scenes planning for what

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would be a historic meeting continues as

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all parties are now speaking again a

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team of White House staffers is said to

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begin laying groundwork this weekend

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South Korea's president had said Trump's

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decision to cancel the planned summit

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left him perplexed you're listening to

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threats and aggressions from Russia and

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North Korea social unrest and violent

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this is Robert Hastings author of UFOs

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02:14:54,990 --> 02:14:52,360
and nukes and you're listening to the

3088
02:15:03,390 --> 02:14:55,000
podcast the gold standard of paranormal

3089
02:15:05,490 --> 02:15:03,400
radio we've got dr. Jack hunter Cox

3090
02:15:07,800 --> 02:15:05,500
McKay's guest co-host I'm gene Steinberg

3091
02:15:11,220 --> 02:15:07,810
and I'd very much like to bring on

3092
02:15:13,080 --> 02:15:11,230
someone who is a medium on to the power

3093
02:15:15,930 --> 02:15:13,090
cast to give it a try now we've had some

3094
02:15:18,870 --> 02:15:15,940
people here claim to have different

3095
02:15:21,270 --> 02:15:18,880
psychic abilities and they gave me a

3096
02:15:23,750 --> 02:15:21,280
couple of readings and maybe or maybe

3097
02:15:25,680 --> 02:15:23,760
they didn't come up with anything that

3098
02:15:28,050 --> 02:15:25,690
had any value

3099
02:15:30,959 --> 02:15:28,060
I was also outfitted here with something

3100
02:15:33,750 --> 02:15:30,969
called a wishing machine or hieronymus

3101
02:15:37,620 --> 02:15:33,760
box dr. hunter ever hear of one of those

3102
02:15:39,600 --> 02:15:37,630
no Evan alright supposedly you set this

3103
02:15:41,760 --> 02:15:39,610
box and a bunch of dials that you'd turn

3104
02:15:43,530 --> 02:15:41,770
until you feel some kind of vibe and I

3105
02:15:47,310 --> 02:15:43,540
felt that or maybe was my imagination

3106
02:15:51,030 --> 02:15:47,320
and you write down a request and that

3107
02:15:54,209 --> 02:15:51,040
request supposedly will be what you're

3108
02:15:57,030 --> 02:15:54,219
looking for or hoping to do and then you

3109
02:15:59,270 --> 02:15:57,040
set the thing up you plug it in it draws

3110
02:16:03,240 --> 02:15:59,280
power I don't know for what purpose and

3111
02:16:05,459 --> 02:16:03,250
supposedly over time if it works that

3112
02:16:07,169 --> 02:16:05,469
wish will come true

3113
02:16:11,910 --> 02:16:07,179
it sounds almost like an electronic

3114
02:16:14,880 --> 02:16:11,920
genie I can't say that I had more than a

3115
02:16:17,550 --> 02:16:14,890
very casual experience with it I can say

3116
02:16:20,580 --> 02:16:17,560
that it was positive because I had it in

3117
02:16:23,040 --> 02:16:20,590
my home while I was faced with losing

3118
02:16:25,050 --> 02:16:23,050
that home so I can't say it was positive

3119
02:16:29,250 --> 02:16:25,060
even though I wish for a nice thing is

3120
02:16:32,100 --> 02:16:29,260
it possible what about dreams or wishes

3121
02:16:35,490 --> 02:16:32,110
wish fulfillment is there something that

3122
02:16:38,459 --> 02:16:35,500
is available under these experiences

3123
02:16:40,500 --> 02:16:38,469
that you have or report again it's some

3124
02:16:43,440 --> 02:16:40,510
I wouldn't rule out the possibility if

3125
02:16:45,990 --> 02:16:43,450
we look at their side experiments in the

3126
02:16:48,810 --> 02:16:46,000
lab I mean Dean Raiden's research would

3127
02:16:51,299 --> 02:16:48,820
be a good kind of tie in with all of

3128
02:16:53,759 --> 02:16:51,309
this stuff it does seem as though we can

3129
02:16:55,530 --> 02:16:53,769
you know under certain circumstances you

3130
02:16:57,660 --> 02:16:55,540
know whether that's you know in altered

3131
02:17:00,570 --> 02:16:57,670
states of consciousness or in ritual

3132
02:17:01,170 --> 02:17:00,580
conditions or even occasionally in power

3133
02:17:02,970 --> 02:17:01,180
cycle

3134
02:17:05,250 --> 02:17:02,980
or experiments as well it does seem as

3135
02:17:08,840 --> 02:17:05,260
though we can exert some kind of a

3136
02:17:11,340 --> 02:17:08,850
mental influence on the outside world

3137
02:17:12,570 --> 02:17:11,350
actually perhaps this is where we would

3138
02:17:15,390 --> 02:17:12,580
beginning to see that there isn't

3139
02:17:17,340 --> 02:17:15,400
actually all over the outside world this

3140
02:17:19,831 --> 02:17:17,350
kind of relief is kind of connected to

3141
02:17:22,200 --> 02:17:19,841
our inside world whatever whatever the

3142
02:17:24,390 --> 02:17:22,210
ultimate ontology is it does seem as

3143
02:17:26,610 --> 02:17:24,400
foundationally influence the stuff that

3144
02:17:27,920 --> 02:17:26,620
goes on seemingly out there I wouldn't

3145
02:17:31,740 --> 02:17:27,930
say that it was impossible that a

3146
02:17:33,450 --> 02:17:31,750
electronic genie could possibly work I

3147
02:17:35,670 --> 02:17:33,460
mean it's you know it's one of those

3148
02:17:38,760 --> 02:17:35,680
things isn't it you have to experiment

3149
02:17:40,530 --> 02:17:38,770
with it and see if it works you yeah

3150
02:17:43,680 --> 02:17:40,540
it's really interesting well the other

3151
02:17:46,320 --> 02:17:43,690
question would be logically it's reality

3152
02:17:49,550 --> 02:17:46,330
reality are we seeing what's really

3153
02:17:51,810 --> 02:17:49,560
there or are we sitting in little pods

3154
02:17:54,480 --> 02:17:51,820
connecting to a computer that creates

3155
02:17:56,430 --> 02:17:54,490
our reality for better or worse and yeah

3156
02:17:58,550 --> 02:17:56,440
we could be or we could be dealing with

3157
02:18:01,800 --> 02:17:58,560
something that's much more kind of

3158
02:18:04,680 --> 02:18:01,810
organic and maybe we're not in pods but

3159
02:18:09,570 --> 02:18:04,690
we are still in some sense creating our

3160
02:18:12,180 --> 02:18:09,580
own reality or in some way reality is

3161
02:18:13,950 --> 02:18:12,190
the kind of like the end result of our

3162
02:18:15,600 --> 02:18:13,960
interactions with something that's out

3163
02:18:17,940 --> 02:18:15,610
there I mean the possibilities really

3164
02:18:20,520 --> 02:18:17,950
are endless they don't think that we

3165
02:18:21,990 --> 02:18:20,530
we've settled on a definitive way of

3166
02:18:24,180 --> 02:18:22,000
thinking about these things yet

3167
02:18:25,890 --> 02:18:24,190
definitely a lot more research and a lot

3168
02:18:27,810 --> 02:18:25,900
more philosophizing that needs to be

3169
02:18:29,520 --> 02:18:27,820
done I think actually it's really

3170
02:18:32,041 --> 02:18:29,530
exciting it's really good that we can

3171
02:18:33,690 --> 02:18:32,051
we're beginning to have these kinds of

3172
02:18:35,791 --> 02:18:33,700
conversations we've begun to take

3173
02:18:38,820 --> 02:18:35,801
seriously the possibility that reality

3174
02:18:41,220 --> 02:18:38,830
is far stranger and far weirder than

3175
02:18:44,250 --> 02:18:41,230
them you know then that our our dominant

3176
02:18:46,440 --> 02:18:44,260
models of generally allowed for well

3177
02:18:48,090 --> 02:18:46,450
certainly is a weird world out there and

3178
02:18:51,331 --> 02:18:48,100
maybe the world is whatever we wish it

3179
02:18:53,791 --> 02:18:51,341
to be and be nice though if we were able

3180
02:18:56,730 --> 02:18:53,801
to change our reality a little bit what

3181
02:18:58,770 --> 02:18:56,740
about things like paranormal events that

3182
02:19:01,621 --> 02:18:58,780
may be emerging from other dimensional

3183
02:19:04,380 --> 02:19:01,631
portals well very good as another

3184
02:19:06,750 --> 02:19:04,390
possibility isn't it it's entirely

3185
02:19:08,220 --> 02:19:06,760
possible that there are parallel worlds

3186
02:19:10,650 --> 02:19:08,230
though actually I was listening to

3187
02:19:13,410 --> 02:19:10,660
something yesterday what it was but they

3188
02:19:14,910 --> 02:19:13,420
were saying how it's not good to think

3189
02:19:16,770 --> 02:19:14,920
in terms of parallel

3190
02:19:19,140 --> 02:19:16,780
because parallel worlds never interact

3191
02:19:20,640 --> 02:19:19,150
if you look at two parallel lines what

3192
02:19:23,010 --> 02:19:20,650
they're always in parallel and they

3193
02:19:24,900 --> 02:19:23,020
never they never cross so it seems as

3194
02:19:26,490 --> 02:19:24,910
though when we talk about these other

3195
02:19:29,160 --> 02:19:26,500
worlds we're talking about something

3196
02:19:32,121 --> 02:19:29,170
that actually can interact with us so

3197
02:19:34,860 --> 02:19:32,131
it's not parallel it's kind of

3198
02:19:37,140 --> 02:19:34,870
intercepting with our world if there is

3199
02:19:38,460 --> 02:19:37,150
some kind of an interaction there but I

3200
02:19:40,710 --> 02:19:38,470
think that's what comes across when we

3201
02:19:42,420 --> 02:19:40,720
look at things like mediumship and

3202
02:19:44,280 --> 02:19:42,430
shamanism and all of these different

3203
02:19:46,470 --> 02:19:44,290
kinds of Byrne spirit communication

3204
02:19:48,360 --> 02:19:46,480
we're not talking about parallel worlds

3205
02:19:50,131 --> 02:19:48,370
that never meet each other we're talking

3206
02:19:52,350 --> 02:19:50,141
about worlds that are constantly bumping

3207
02:19:54,480 --> 02:19:52,360
up against each other they're constantly

3208
02:19:57,600 --> 02:19:54,490
influencing each other in different

3209
02:19:59,490 --> 02:19:57,610
kinds of ways so yeah I think it's

3210
02:20:01,200 --> 02:19:59,500
possible but maybe parallel is not the

3211
02:20:03,301 --> 02:20:01,210
word that we really we should be using

3212
02:20:06,930 --> 02:20:03,311
well we're speaking before of our

3213
02:20:09,421 --> 02:20:06,940
concept of reality if the reality we

3214
02:20:12,660 --> 02:20:09,431
have especially paranormal events is in

3215
02:20:14,761 --> 02:20:12,670
part contributed by us yeah

3216
02:20:19,320 --> 02:20:14,771
can we control that you know if I oh I

3217
02:20:22,171 --> 02:20:19,330
see for example a ghost and I really

3218
02:20:24,211 --> 02:20:22,181
want to see a blonde Venusian or

3219
02:20:27,240 --> 02:20:24,221
whatever yeah can I create the

3220
02:20:30,060 --> 02:20:27,250
difference well again there's a lot of

3221
02:20:32,850 --> 02:20:30,070
anecdotal evidence that that seems to be

3222
02:20:35,490 --> 02:20:32,860
possible I'm thinking about UFOs and all

3223
02:20:37,801 --> 02:20:35,500
of that we know that people like John

3224
02:20:40,440 --> 02:20:37,811
keel again they talked about how our

3225
02:20:42,780 --> 02:20:40,450
beliefs and things influence the way

3226
02:20:46,291 --> 02:20:42,790
that we experience the world so the

3227
02:20:49,140 --> 02:20:46,301
people who saw UFOs in the 1897

3228
02:20:52,381 --> 02:20:49,150
you know airship flaps were seeing kind

3229
02:20:54,660 --> 02:20:52,391
of like big blimps know like by airships

3230
02:20:56,610 --> 02:20:54,670
kind of like made of wooden things

3231
02:20:58,081 --> 02:20:56,620
because that was their frame of

3232
02:21:00,751 --> 02:20:58,091
reference for understanding and

3233
02:21:02,730 --> 02:21:00,761
interpreting anomalous phenomena and

3234
02:21:04,501 --> 02:21:02,740
then by the time we get to the 1950s

3235
02:21:07,350 --> 02:21:04,511
when people are thinking about the space

3236
02:21:09,030 --> 02:21:07,360
race and the satellite Sputnik and all

3237
02:21:12,421 --> 02:21:09,040
of that stuff all of a sudden the

3238
02:21:14,280 --> 02:21:12,431
anomalous aerial phenomena is shiny

3239
02:21:15,900 --> 02:21:14,290
silver discs and things so who knows

3240
02:21:18,121 --> 02:21:15,910
what they're going to be in the future

3241
02:21:20,520 --> 02:21:18,131
it goes back to that idea again of with

3242
02:21:23,280 --> 02:21:20,530
me Jacque believed that in the medieval

3243
02:21:24,900 --> 02:21:23,290
times the the culture that they had and

3244
02:21:27,360 --> 02:21:24,910
the beliefs that they had shaped their

3245
02:21:28,200 --> 02:21:27,370
experience of these things so that we

3246
02:21:31,860 --> 02:21:28,210
will you know they would

3247
02:21:34,320 --> 02:21:31,870
with fairies and elves and goblins so

3248
02:21:36,060 --> 02:21:34,330
yeah I think that we can influence that

3249
02:21:39,270 --> 02:21:36,070
outside world in fact I think that we

3250
02:21:40,800 --> 02:21:39,280
are constantly influencing that outside

3251
02:21:43,440 --> 02:21:40,810
world or at least we're constantly

3252
02:21:45,180 --> 02:21:43,450
affecting our experience of the outside

3253
02:21:48,060 --> 02:21:45,190
world but I wouldn't want to say that

3254
02:21:50,640 --> 02:21:48,070
there is no outside world 100% I don't

3255
02:21:53,250 --> 02:21:50,650
think I think there is an element that

3256
02:21:54,810 --> 02:21:53,260
is unpredictable you know that there is

3257
02:21:57,360 --> 02:21:54,820
another mind out there that we're

3258
02:22:00,570 --> 02:21:57,370
interacting with in some way that has

3259
02:22:03,420 --> 02:22:00,580
its own agency in its own intention you

3260
02:22:06,469 --> 02:22:03,430
that there is this other kind of mind

3261
02:22:10,680 --> 02:22:06,479
that we are interacting that is

3262
02:22:14,520 --> 02:22:10,690
independent of us but also that we we

3263
02:22:17,070 --> 02:22:14,530
kind of feed into that it manifests

3264
02:22:19,350 --> 02:22:17,080
itself to us according to the way that

3265
02:22:22,260 --> 02:22:19,360
we want to see there what's your

3266
02:22:23,430 --> 02:22:22,270
perception about all these realities

3267
02:22:27,719 --> 02:22:23,440
cogs

3268
02:22:31,440 --> 02:22:27,729
well I suppose I find interesting

3269
02:22:35,100 --> 02:22:31,450
intriguing is why is it seems to be that

3270
02:22:37,350 --> 02:22:35,110
I understand the point about we perceive

3271
02:22:40,980 --> 02:22:37,360
certain things depending on you know

3272
02:22:44,130 --> 02:22:40,990
what our own makeup and unstuff is but

3273
02:22:46,590 --> 02:22:44,140
what is about the people who seem to

3274
02:22:50,370 --> 02:22:46,600
have experiences in the first place

3275
02:22:53,040 --> 02:22:50,380
compared to those who do not I mean I

3276
02:22:55,200 --> 02:22:53,050
wonder if there's because I certainly do

3277
02:22:58,680 --> 02:22:55,210
not think that everyone who reports an

3278
02:23:02,070 --> 02:22:58,690
abduction or a ghost sighting or Bigfoot

3279
02:23:04,770 --> 02:23:02,080
or whatever I certainly don't believe

3280
02:23:07,500 --> 02:23:04,780
that they are all delusional or they're

3281
02:23:09,870 --> 02:23:07,510
all making it up and what's even weirder

3282
02:23:12,650 --> 02:23:09,880
is you get some people who seem to have

3283
02:23:16,110 --> 02:23:12,660
a multitude of experiences of various

3284
02:23:18,990 --> 02:23:16,120
different kinds and again I don't think

3285
02:23:21,570 --> 02:23:19,000
they're all making it up so the it's

3286
02:23:26,070 --> 02:23:21,580
like what is it what an earth is it that

3287
02:23:29,280 --> 02:23:26,080
marks some people out as like receptive

3288
02:23:32,250 --> 02:23:29,290
to experiences and others not because

3289
02:23:35,850 --> 02:23:32,260
I've always thought that let Sam there

3290
02:23:39,070 --> 02:23:35,860
are certain places in amongst the kind

3291
02:23:41,740 --> 02:23:39,080
of the ghost hunting fraternity there

3292
02:23:45,190 --> 02:23:41,750
locations that are known to be you know

3293
02:23:48,370 --> 02:23:45,200
pretty we are haunted pretty severely

3294
02:23:51,761 --> 02:23:48,380
and not only that probably by some quite

3295
02:23:54,610 --> 02:23:51,771
negative kind of happenings or entities

3296
02:23:57,280 --> 02:23:54,620
and I've always thought well if there

3297
02:23:59,770 --> 02:23:57,290
are all these scientists and skeptics

3298
02:24:01,690 --> 02:23:59,780
out there that are completely dismissive

3299
02:24:05,680 --> 02:24:01,700
of even the possibility of ghosts and

3300
02:24:08,680 --> 02:24:05,690
stuff I think well hey let's put them to

3301
02:24:12,310 --> 02:24:08,690
the challenge let's let them go to these

3302
02:24:14,290 --> 02:24:12,320
places alone at night with a Ouija board

3303
02:24:17,470 --> 02:24:14,300
and to try and summon demons or

3304
02:24:27,870 --> 02:24:17,480
something we got more to come with cogs

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contacted by a space woman in a dream a

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dream that turns out to be a nightmare

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because evil forces on our distant

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[Music]

3415
02:28:49,790 --> 02:28:47,400
cycle feed in other books when you're

3416
02:29:00,570 --> 02:28:49,800
listening to the podcast

3417
02:29:05,831 --> 02:29:03,301
our final segment with the author of

3418
02:29:08,291 --> 02:29:05,841
engaging the anomalous set of essays

3419
02:29:11,440 --> 02:29:08,301
from dr. Jack hunter dogs mkhaya zorg

3420
02:29:14,711 --> 02:29:11,450
esko's and was bringing up all these

3421
02:29:15,551 --> 02:29:14,721
fascinating possibilities of things that

3422
02:29:18,940 --> 02:29:15,561
are going on

3423
02:29:22,751 --> 02:29:18,950
what about haunted houses dr. hunter

3424
02:29:24,940 --> 02:29:22,761
yeah well haunted houses they're

3425
02:29:27,131 --> 02:29:24,950
probably one of the oldest one of the

3426
02:29:30,251 --> 02:29:27,141
oldest kind of paranormal experiences I

3427
02:29:33,011 --> 02:29:30,261
think there's a historian of religions

3428
02:29:34,841 --> 02:29:33,021
called rudolph otto and he was the guy

3429
02:29:38,020 --> 02:29:34,851
who came up with this term the numinous

3430
02:29:40,751 --> 02:29:38,030
and he suggested that the experience of

3431
02:29:42,610 --> 02:29:40,761
haunted houses you know the kind of the

3432
02:29:45,820 --> 02:29:42,620
fear and the terror and all of those

3433
02:29:48,551 --> 02:29:45,830
kinds of things is kind of like one of

3434
02:29:50,770 --> 02:29:48,561
the earliest religious experiences that

3435
02:29:52,780 --> 02:29:50,780
the human beings have had that it's a

3436
02:29:56,320 --> 02:29:52,790
part of something that's very deep and

3437
02:29:59,320 --> 02:29:56,330
very primal within us again I'm thinking

3438
02:30:01,810 --> 02:29:59,330
now in terms of haunted houses and like

3439
02:30:03,430 --> 02:30:01,820
window areas and haunted landscapes and

3440
02:30:06,100 --> 02:30:03,440
stuff and about what that can tell us

3441
02:30:08,261 --> 02:30:06,110
about our relationship with our own

3442
02:30:10,511 --> 02:30:08,271
environments with our ecology as well

3443
02:30:12,610 --> 02:30:10,521
that perhaps there are certain areas

3444
02:30:14,261 --> 02:30:12,620
where communication between these

3445
02:30:16,961 --> 02:30:14,271
different worlds that we've been talking

3446
02:30:19,001 --> 02:30:16,971
about are easier to you know to achieve

3447
02:30:21,100 --> 02:30:19,011
and all of that kind of thing so yeah I

3448
02:30:23,140 --> 02:30:21,110
think haunted house phenomenon is

3449
02:30:25,661 --> 02:30:23,150
particularly interesting because it is

3450
02:30:28,121 --> 02:30:25,671
so located in a particular you know in a

3451
02:30:31,180 --> 02:30:28,131
particular area and ghosts have been

3452
02:30:34,900 --> 02:30:31,190
part of you know a human mythology for

3453
02:30:38,520 --> 02:30:34,910
so long that I have to have to think as

3454
02:30:42,940 --> 02:30:38,530
well that just even the concept of

3455
02:30:46,631 --> 02:30:42,950
hoaxing is probably relatively new so

3456
02:30:49,331 --> 02:30:46,641
all the you know ancient experiences

3457
02:30:51,220 --> 02:30:49,341
that were reported of of ghostly

3458
02:30:53,411 --> 02:30:51,230
entities and stuff and I mean I

3459
02:30:55,631 --> 02:30:53,421
obviously understand that human beings

3460
02:30:57,820 --> 02:30:55,641
have sense of humor and there's no

3461
02:31:00,970 --> 02:30:57,830
reason to think that three thousand

3462
02:31:02,050 --> 02:31:00,980
years ago one man may have gone due to

3463
02:31:04,120 --> 02:31:02,060
his friend coming

3464
02:31:06,460 --> 02:31:04,130
the coroner Tate skin yeah I'm not

3465
02:31:10,210 --> 02:31:06,470
saying that that hasn't happened but the

3466
02:31:13,389 --> 02:31:10,220
pervasiveness of this idea of spirits

3467
02:31:16,599 --> 02:31:13,399
haunting places it's just everywhere in

3468
02:31:20,080 --> 02:31:16,609
every culture and people could say well

3469
02:31:22,269 --> 02:31:20,090
maybe it's just just like all human

3470
02:31:25,179 --> 02:31:22,279
civilizations have art we've got a

3471
02:31:27,689 --> 02:31:25,189
literature you know things are cloud

3472
02:31:31,389 --> 02:31:27,699
we've got you know militaristic

3473
02:31:35,349 --> 02:31:31,399
tendencies and stuff so maybe goose this

3474
02:31:37,689 --> 02:31:35,359
you know everyone thinks about oh is

3475
02:31:40,269 --> 02:31:37,699
there an afterlife is that our God you

3476
02:31:42,670 --> 02:31:40,279
know are there other intelligence living

3477
02:31:45,819 --> 02:31:42,680
everywhere and maybe you could argue

3478
02:31:49,420 --> 02:31:45,829
well ghosts are just a manifestation of

3479
02:31:51,309 --> 02:31:49,430
the the need for humans to try and

3480
02:31:54,280 --> 02:31:51,319
understand that there will be something

3481
02:31:57,399 --> 02:31:54,290
after physical death but I don't think

3482
02:32:00,460 --> 02:31:57,409
that is enough of a reason to explain

3483
02:32:04,389 --> 02:32:00,470
the plethora the desaturation of all

3484
02:32:06,939 --> 02:32:04,399
cultures of having a idea of ghosts and

3485
02:32:08,859 --> 02:32:06,949
stuff okay another quick for instance

3486
02:32:12,870 --> 02:32:08,869
what I was saying earlier that you could

3487
02:32:15,550 --> 02:32:12,880
talk to almost anyone and ask them about

3488
02:32:18,939 --> 02:32:15,560
have you ever had a weird experience and

3489
02:32:21,399 --> 02:32:18,949
if they haven't had when themselves they

3490
02:32:23,019 --> 02:32:21,409
certainly well know someone who has I'll

3491
02:32:25,479 --> 02:32:23,029
just give you a for instance I was on a

3492
02:32:27,580 --> 02:32:25,489
course and it just so happened that

3493
02:32:30,250 --> 02:32:27,590
there were some gamekeepers at this

3494
02:32:32,380 --> 02:32:30,260
course we were outside I was outside

3495
02:32:35,050 --> 02:32:32,390
weeping and there's some guys smoking

3496
02:32:37,479 --> 02:32:35,060
and I happened to overhear the teacher

3497
02:32:39,309 --> 02:32:37,489
this chemistry professor and he was

3498
02:32:41,889 --> 02:32:39,319
having an informal chat was one of the

3499
02:32:43,599 --> 02:32:41,899
gamekeepers and these gamekeepers are

3500
02:32:46,780 --> 02:32:43,609
gamekeepers at that you can look up

3501
02:32:49,780 --> 02:32:46,790
online a castle called 5e castle in

3502
02:32:53,019 --> 02:32:49,790
Northeast Scotland a beautiful castle

3503
02:32:55,359 --> 02:32:53,029
and I overheard them and I literally

3504
02:32:58,569 --> 02:32:55,369
kind of walked up say sorry I couldn't

3505
02:33:00,189 --> 02:32:58,579
help overhearing but I heard you talking

3506
02:33:03,160 --> 02:33:00,199
about ghosts and they like yeah yeah

3507
02:33:06,849 --> 02:33:03,170
c'mon turns out this five e castle has

3508
02:33:09,700 --> 02:33:06,859
got a very long history of an apparition

3509
02:33:11,859 --> 02:33:09,710
that sighted and she's nicknamed the

3510
02:33:15,150 --> 02:33:11,869
green lady and she's always seen in the

3511
02:33:18,660 --> 02:33:15,160
same place well anyway this gamekeeper

3512
02:33:21,090 --> 02:33:18,670
who obviously has working dogs and these

3513
02:33:22,980 --> 02:33:21,100
dogs are not treated like pets and you

3514
02:33:24,750 --> 02:33:22,990
know they don't jump up in the bed all

3515
02:33:26,190 --> 02:33:24,760
my stuff these are working dogs and

3516
02:33:29,639 --> 02:33:26,200
they've got a very different kind of

3517
02:33:32,040 --> 02:33:29,649
function in the dog world than pets the

3518
02:33:34,080 --> 02:33:32,050
gamekeeper said you know I don't know

3519
02:33:36,719 --> 02:33:34,090
what I think about ghosts he goes but

3520
02:33:38,219 --> 02:33:36,729
the weirdest thing is every time when

3521
02:33:40,830 --> 02:33:38,229
I'm going around the castle

3522
02:33:44,040 --> 02:33:40,840
every time we go near that window where

3523
02:33:46,889 --> 02:33:44,050
the green lady's reported the dog stops

3524
02:33:48,810 --> 02:33:46,899
sits down and stares at the window he

3525
02:33:50,969 --> 02:33:48,820
goes I can't see anything I can't feel

3526
02:33:53,010 --> 02:33:50,979
anything Eagles but it happens time and

3527
02:33:55,410 --> 02:33:53,020
time again that's the only place that

3528
02:33:57,270 --> 02:33:55,420
ever happens so it's just so strange

3529
02:34:00,150 --> 02:33:57,280
when you get somebody who's not into

3530
02:34:02,550 --> 02:34:00,160
ghosts and whatever but he's saying well

3531
02:34:04,950 --> 02:34:02,560
I've got my own little bit to add to

3532
02:34:07,260 --> 02:34:04,960
this which kind of I can't make you know

3533
02:34:09,570 --> 02:34:07,270
a sense of just little things like that

3534
02:34:11,580 --> 02:34:09,580
have been going on for so long there has

3535
02:34:13,800 --> 02:34:11,590
to be something to it I don't know if

3536
02:34:16,679 --> 02:34:13,810
it's spirits of dead people that are

3537
02:34:19,410 --> 02:34:16,689
caught and jammed and they can't move on

3538
02:34:21,210 --> 02:34:19,420
to the next thing but I do

3539
02:34:25,370 --> 02:34:21,220
I've seen an apparition simple as that

3540
02:34:27,929 --> 02:34:25,380
is it the conscious kind of a physical

3541
02:34:29,969 --> 02:34:27,939
representation of a soul that still are

3542
02:34:33,630 --> 02:34:29,979
spanked who knows but I've certainly

3543
02:34:35,760 --> 02:34:33,640
seen an apparition well I mean yeah

3544
02:34:37,800 --> 02:34:35,770
people do have these experiences and I

3545
02:34:40,650 --> 02:34:37,810
think that's the takeaway of this whole

3546
02:34:42,860 --> 02:34:40,660
conversation is that weird things do

3547
02:34:45,600 --> 02:34:42,870
seem to happen we still don't know

3548
02:34:47,280 --> 02:34:45,610
what's actually going on as much as the

3549
02:34:49,889 --> 02:34:47,290
kind of like they're hardcore

3550
02:34:51,389 --> 02:34:49,899
materialist scientists and the skeptics

3551
02:34:52,770 --> 02:34:51,399
and all of those guys would like to

3552
02:34:56,940 --> 02:34:52,780
think that they've already sorted it all

3553
02:34:59,760 --> 02:34:56,950
out they really that there's still a lot

3554
02:35:01,380 --> 02:34:59,770
more research to be done so my hope is

3555
02:35:03,510 --> 02:35:01,390
with this book engaging the anomalous is

3556
02:35:05,010 --> 02:35:03,520
that it will encourage other researchers

3557
02:35:07,200 --> 02:35:05,020
to go out and think about these things

3558
02:35:10,080 --> 02:35:07,210
from aminos from different perspectives

3559
02:35:12,270 --> 02:35:10,090
trying to open up new possibilities new

3560
02:35:14,429 --> 02:35:12,280
ways of thinking about the paranormal

3561
02:35:16,260 --> 02:35:14,439
and new methods of researching it

3562
02:35:18,780 --> 02:35:16,270
because it's only through engaging with

3563
02:35:20,550 --> 02:35:18,790
the anomalous that we're gonna know move

3564
02:35:23,610 --> 02:35:20,560
towards any kind of an understanding of

3565
02:35:25,219 --> 02:35:23,620
what's really going on does the fact

3566
02:35:27,950 --> 02:35:25,229
that so many people regard this

3567
02:35:30,410 --> 02:35:27,960
primarily as entertainment there

3568
02:35:35,600 --> 02:35:30,420
that hurt getting the serious research

3569
02:35:37,210 --> 02:35:35,610
done it can do yeah at the same time you

3570
02:35:40,670 --> 02:35:37,220
know the fact that so many people

3571
02:35:42,740 --> 02:35:40,680
consider it entertainment suggests that

3572
02:35:44,870 --> 02:35:42,750
it is meaningful to people that they are

3573
02:35:47,180 --> 02:35:44,880
interested in it and that they want to

3574
02:35:48,410 --> 02:35:47,190
know they want to engage with it even if

3575
02:35:51,200 --> 02:35:48,420
it is from the comfort of their own

3576
02:35:52,820 --> 02:35:51,210
homes so yeah it's it's damaging in one

3577
02:35:55,250 --> 02:35:52,830
sense but in the other sense that shows

3578
02:35:56,960 --> 02:35:55,260
that people are interested in it it's a

3579
02:36:00,980 --> 02:35:56,970
perennial interest that people keep

3580
02:36:03,250 --> 02:36:00,990
returning to maybe there is an innate

3581
02:36:05,270 --> 02:36:03,260
imperative to find out more about it

3582
02:36:08,030 --> 02:36:05,280
yeah there is there's an innate

3583
02:36:09,680 --> 02:36:08,040
fascination that we seem to have you

3584
02:36:11,930 --> 02:36:09,690
know to do with all of these kinds of

3585
02:36:14,930 --> 02:36:11,940
these things that go beyond our everyday

3586
02:36:17,180 --> 02:36:14,940
experience of the world the more we

3587
02:36:20,000 --> 02:36:17,190
learn about air you know quantum

3588
02:36:23,380 --> 02:36:20,010
mechanics the ins and outs of quantum

3589
02:36:25,969 --> 02:36:23,390
mechanics are so strange that you know

3590
02:36:27,830 --> 02:36:25,979
ghostly stuff and what-have-you

3591
02:36:30,650 --> 02:36:27,840
doesn't even seem that weird in

3592
02:36:32,719 --> 02:36:30,660
comparison yeah exactly it just points

3593
02:36:34,910 --> 02:36:32,729
to the fact that this weirdness goes all

3594
02:36:36,980 --> 02:36:34,920
the way down it's not just on the

3595
02:36:39,380 --> 02:36:36,990
surface in the human world it goes way

3596
02:36:42,110 --> 02:36:39,390
down way down way down into the quantum

3597
02:36:45,260 --> 02:36:42,120
and beyond you know maybe my dog teddy

3598
02:36:46,790 --> 02:36:45,270
bear is seeing ghosts we'll have to ask

3599
02:36:49,190 --> 02:36:46,800
when he starts barking your thing as you

3600
02:36:53,240 --> 02:36:49,200
can see then again if he gives an answer

3601
02:36:55,460 --> 02:36:53,250
we'll have the most valuable dog on the

3602
02:36:57,410 --> 02:36:55,470
planet dr. Jack hunter please tell our

3603
02:36:59,660 --> 02:36:57,420
listeners if they want know more about

3604
02:37:01,100 --> 02:36:59,670
you is there a site they can go to well

3605
02:37:03,170 --> 02:37:01,110
you can find out a little bit more about

3606
02:37:05,090 --> 02:37:03,180
me from my journal Peron through Paula

3607
02:37:06,830 --> 02:37:05,100
G's if you search for power anthropology

3608
02:37:08,600 --> 02:37:06,840
on the internet on Google you'll be able

3609
02:37:11,420 --> 02:37:08,610
to find it easy enough and they also

3610
02:37:14,540 --> 02:37:11,430
have my personal website which is Jack -

3611
02:37:18,710 --> 02:37:14,550
hunter web starts comm and that's where

3612
02:37:20,690 --> 02:37:18,720
I upload all of my articles and various

3613
02:37:21,920 --> 02:37:20,700
podcasts and things ooh that's the place

3614
02:37:25,940 --> 02:37:21,930
to go if you want to find out more about

3615
02:37:27,350 --> 02:37:25,950
my work you can find us on the power

3616
02:37:31,280 --> 02:37:27,360
chaos on Twitter that's the power of

3617
02:37:33,350 --> 02:37:31,290
chaos on Twitter look for to power cast

3618
02:37:36,650 --> 02:37:33,360
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3619
02:37:39,140 --> 02:37:36,660
exciting not one but two we have a

3620
02:37:41,059 --> 02:37:39,150
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3621
02:37:46,550 --> 02:37:41,069
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3622
02:37:47,269 --> 02:37:46,560
to tec-9 oh not come / radio to learn

3623
02:37:49,880 --> 02:37:47,279
more about our

3624
02:37:52,250 --> 02:37:49,890
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3625
02:37:54,199 --> 02:37:52,260
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3627
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3628
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3629
02:38:05,269 --> 02:38:02,129
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3630
02:38:06,920 --> 02:38:05,279
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3631
02:38:09,559 --> 02:38:06,930
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3635
02:38:23,659 --> 02:38:20,129
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3636
02:38:25,489 --> 02:38:23,669
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3637
02:38:27,739 --> 02:38:25,499
we're not going anywhere despite all the

3638
02:38:31,939 --> 02:38:27,749
craziness in the online world

3639
02:38:34,309 --> 02:38:31,949
check out + dot the para cast comm for

3640
02:38:36,019 --> 02:38:34,319
information sign up links and all the

3641
02:38:38,449 --> 02:38:36,029
other goodies you have to be a member of

3642
02:38:40,550 --> 02:38:38,459
the forum though to sign up ok just let

3643
02:38:42,529 --> 02:38:40,560
you know that dr. Jack hunter thank you

3644
02:38:53,320 --> 02:38:42,539
for joining us on the power cast this

3645
02:38:59,870 --> 02:38:56,841
the para cast featuring gene Steinberg

3646
02:39:02,740 --> 02:38:59,880
and Christopher O'Brien is a copyrighted

3647
02:39:06,650 --> 02:39:02,750
presentation of making the impossible